Junior Corps Training

[bstone]

American 16 year olds and Israeli 16 year olds are two completely different sets of 16 year olds. Different exposure levels, probably different maturity levels as well.

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?

 

[Sasha]

I have no opinion on the profession outside of the US. Frankly I don't care if Israeli teenagers get to play EMT. I do care that American children get to further debase the profession and play EMT. They should be in school, focusing on getting a good education as oppose to putting time in effort into being an EMT. That can wait 'til their 18.

 

[AJ Hidell]

What about the thousands of thousands Israeli 16 year old EMTs?

The age of consent in Israel is 16, making the cultural implications of such a program much different than in much of the United States.

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.

Despite all their experience, is there any statistical evidence suggesting that Israel's M&M rate for MCIs is any better than ours?

 

[JPINFV]

Which is a shame. We can learn a lot from them. A real lot. No one has more experience in MCIs.

If we had reason to fear constant and continuous terrorist attacks then the comparison to Israel would be a good comparison. While, yes, everyone, regardless of country of residence or citizenship, should be trained to be trained to be able to provide basic emergency medical care (first aid). That said, the big difference is that a resident of Israel has a pretty good chance on actually using their training than residents of the US. I would agree with your argument if the Cold War was still going, but the reality is that we have no threat to civil defense that approaches the threat that Palestine poses to Israel.

 

[medicdan]

I;m going to step in here quickly. I have worked in Israel, alongside 15- and 16- year old First Responders (note, they are NOT EMTs, can cannot be trained to that level until 18). Two first responders staff a normal BLS ambulance with one EMT/Driver. The EMT is responsible for stabilization on scene, and if it is anything major, calling ALS. For the normal BS/BLS, the FRs monitor vitals and patient condition en route, and complete the patient care documentation (and bill).

The teenage FRs are specifically chosen for their maturity and leadership abilities, they are not jus random kids off the street. Israel has a strong sense of community service, and this is one of many ways these kids give back to their community, this is a hoby, but considered a job for them.

One last note, when there is a call for a terror attack of any kind, the ambulance stops, and lets everyone under 18 off, then procedes to the scene. There is such a high percentage of the population that is trained to the EMT (+) level, they have more then enough personnel on scene, and dont want to risk injury to the teenagers.

I need to run now, but would be glad to comment on this further, either on-forum or in private.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?

What are the odds that I'm going to walk outside right now and step on a landmine or find an IED? Slim to none. Israel may be lax on the age because, surprise surprise, they have a lot more crap to worry about. Such as, a lot more people getting blown half to hell on a regular basis.

 

[AJ Hidell]

So then the statement that someone under 18 has no business being an EMT is only applicable to US residents?

It doesn't matter to me how old any EMT is. I say, if you can pass the test, you can get a patch, just like any other first aid course. You just should not be allowed to practice as any kind of responder -- paid or volly -- unless you are at least 18.

 

[bstone]

It doesn't matter to me how old any EMT is. I say, if you can pass the test, you can get a patch, just like any other first aid course. You just should not be allowed to practice as any kind of responder -- paid or volly -- unless you are at least 18.

Ok. You should tell that to the Israelis where 16 and 17 year olds on the ambulance is incredibly common.

 

[reaper]

Ok. You should tell that to the Israelis where 16 and 17 year olds on the ambulance is incredibly common.

I will take following Israels lead on this, but only if we also implement mandatory military service too!

 

[Jenn701]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions. We are a considerably small group my jr corp is approx. 4 girls right now. We just started the jr corp again last year and the area that I am is rather small and the town next to us has taken most of the youth that is interested in ems because they are a bigger corps. I am looking to do cpr and first aid as soon as my training officer has a big enough group senior and jrs for her to do it. I think that some of you are right to teach them the right emt way so that when they get to that point in their ems life they will be able to do the right way not the basic way. As for people who think that some shouldn't be in jr corp I disagree I've been doing this since I was fourteen and thats where I started in the jr corp and i think that is a way to seperate the people who really want to do it and the kids that really don't.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I will take following Israels lead on this, but only if we also implement mandatory military service too!

Exactly. You do NOT want to start down this road of saying that whatever any other country does should be okay here. That would mean lowering our age of consent to 12 and raising our entry level of EMS practice to the Masters degree level. Each country has it's own unique concerns that often do not translate to other societies. This is one of those cases.

 

[frdude1000]

I have many ideas as I am a member of an EMS explorer post. Do things that are not common things the explorers treat, such as an MCI drill. Do practice harder things, such as proper splinting and taking blood pressure. It is also good to do mock calls with real life scenarios. You could also do a training on radio/communication procedures and filling out paperwork.

 

[LucidResq]

Arapahoe Rescue Patrol - Over 50 years of highly successful, volunteer SAR staffed by youth with adults running the admin, training etc. Would I want high school students staffing ambulances and running pure EMS? Nah... SAR is a different animal - a lot more mindless physical labor. But having been intimately involved in this organization, as both a minor and as an adult, makes it very hard for me to completely rule out select, highly-trained youth as capable first responders.

Also see: Dragon Slayers of Aniak, AK

As far as ideas... call up the local coroner's office and see if they will give a tour. The one out here has been happy to give our team tours in the past. We've had the sheriff's office bring their K9s for demos, firefighters come by to teach some basics, etc. Focus on a particular disease or emergency - I'm teaching a class on diabetes this week.

 

[mongio323]

Having a youth corps is great. I started as a youth corps member when I was 13. When we were 15 we were able to take shifts and ride along with an EMT. But in order to do this we had to have First aid and CPR and be able to do a full part-800 in under 15 min. I became a CFR at 16.

6 years later I am an EMT, Medical Assistant, Volunteer Firefighter and one of the advisors of the youth corps at my corps.

There is no way a youth corps is a bad thing.

As for ideas, we do the basics that an EMT would do. We taught our kids vitals, splinting, all the equipment and how its used. We try and get the out of the building to do scenarios like mock car accidents and MCIs. We are planning on buying fake blood and doing trauma scenarios this week since the weather is beautiful.

I hope this helps. =)

 

[mycrofft]

How about Teen C.E.R.T.?

http://www.srccc.org/teen_cert.htm

One example. See DHS FEMA and your local Citizen Corps for details.

Consider an EMT certificate as one more growth and knowledge oppportunity, not the mandatory immediate entre' to EMS that some of our participants do.

PS: "Age-ists", know the average age of an American infantryman in Vietnam? Not far out of highschool, and some were under.

Some of our folks complain that EMT is nothing more than first aid, then when someone else suggests teenagers get it, the cry arises that American kids are not up to it and it will degrade the "profession".

1. "Street EMS" as many people here seem to define it is not a profession. Ther are some kickazz professionals working as EMT's, some EMT"s are extremely professional, but the field lacks the elements of a "profession". It shouldn't be a lifestyle (for long) either. It is a demanding important job, but it is still a job.

2. I agree that in the USA the opportunities for unnecessary problems are rife and I personally do not subscribe to teens getting into that drama as well as that they normally get into, except where they will be an integrated and appreciated part of the system, such as in rural (not suburban) FD's, etc.

 

[usafmedic45]

*steps up onto his soap-box*

Individuals under the age of 18 have no business being allowed to, being in the process of, obtaining, or holding an EMT-B certification.

Is there room enough on that soapbox for two? I was certified before I was 18 and it was a huge mistake and to this day I still cope with the negative effects of seeing way too much, way too early. Honestly, if anything most 18 year olds are not mature enough to be taking part in any meaningful way, let alone 14, 15 and 16 year olds.

Volunteering may work just fine for firefighting, but EMS isn't firefighting. It's time for us to let what few volunteer organizations remain to fade away gracefully so that history will remember them fondly, but move on to what today's world requires... 24/7, guaranteed, quality assured, educated staffing.

Paid and professional/quality are not synonymous. In fact, many times, especially once unions get involved, it is often counterproductive. To avoid a further derail, all I am going to say that please do not assume you are correct simply based upon your experiences which are demonstrative of your ignorance by the comment about "what few volunteer organizations" are still operating. In some states (Indiana being one), upwards of 40% of EMS at least at a first response/BLS level is provided by volunteers. The Northeast Corridor is not exactly a good example of the rest of the country. It's like saying that South Central LA is a good place to develop practices that would work well for Siskiyou County. You may be over run with paid services and a dwindling number of volunteer organizations, but that is not the case in all areas.

 

[usafmedic45]

When we were 15 we were able to take shifts and ride along with an EMT. But in order to do this we had to have First aid and CPR and be able to do a full part-800 in under 15 min. I became a CFR at 16.

6 years later I am an EMT, Medical Assistant, Volunteer Firefighter and one of the advisors of the youth corps at my corps.

There is no way a youth corps is a bad thing.

Ever heard of a confirmation bias?

 

[mongio323]

Ever heard of a confirmation bias?

yeah I have...and to refresh your memory...

"In psychology and cognitive science, confirmation bias (or confirmatory bias) is a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions, leading to statistical errors. Confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias and represents an error of inductive inference toward confirmation of the hypothesis under study."

However doesn't really apply. Yeah having a 15 y/o on a rig can have some cons but the pros outnumber it. These kids are being active in their community. Most of them want to pursue a career in the medical field, this is just a jump start for them. The only possible bad thing that I have encountered is having a rough call, which we have stress debriefings for, and the potential "drama" that occurs but if the bylaws are enforced then there is no problem with that.

 

[mongio323]

Is there room enough on that soapbox for two? I was certified before I was 18 and it was a huge mistake and to this day I still cope with the negative effects of seeing way too much, way too early. Honestly, if anything most 18 year olds are not mature enough to be taking part in any meaningful way, let alone 14, 15 and 16 year olds.

.

I know adults who couldn't deal with a fraction of what my juniors have seen. When I just turned 15 and was riding we had the most horrific DOA I have ever had. Pt hit their head, bled out and was down at least 5 days in a trailer, on top of the vent and next to the heater.... My partner and I are both 19 y/o EMTs right now. Recently we assisted in a childbirth. Back when we were 18 we had a junior on our crew who was 15 at the time and we had a code. We brought the guy back as a team with a lot of help from the 15 y/o, who is now an officer in our junior corps. Everyone gets a bad call now and then, some more than others. It all depends on how you personally can tolerate it and how you cope.

 

[mycrofft]

One more debate I'm not getting into again.

..............