IV certification??

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JPINFV said:
The problem is that a lot of us don't think that EMT-Bs have enough education to do what we're doing already.
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6th time I'll say it;

With the proper education.
 
Linuss said:
6th time I'll say it;

With the proper education.
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How much education? Teaching one little skill with just a little education about that one skill and indications may miss the rest of the body.

Example: Albuterol: indication - wheezes/shortness of breath. What if the wheezes are cardiac in orgin? Without a cardiac monitor you may miss that HR of 220 because the perfusing pulses you feel may only be 100. New onset A-fib can happen to anyone of any age at any time. No previous history needs to be present.

Phlebotomists now need at least 140 hours of initial training for essentially doing ONE skill and some require 1040 hours of clinical time for the "skill" to be recognized for certification.

CNA may require 150 hours of training in some states, which is more than EMTs for most, and CNAs may be required twice that in a specialty area or each specialty area they work in. Yet, we have all read on these forums what the EMT thinks of the CNA.

PCTs who do IVs and EKGs (just the skills) in hospitals may require 700 hours of training in some states along with an addtional Phlebotomy cert. That is almost more than some states require for the Paramedic. 700 hours is still a lot less then becoming an RN and some PCTs do use that argument to not advance or some just say they prefer not to have the responsibility of an RN.

There are all considered "non-licensed" technicians.

For EMS to get recognized as a profession, something more concrete has to be decided upon rather than this piece mill skills patch work of "certs".
 
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ffemt8978 said:
So what you're saying is that you work for more than one service, correct? I'm guessing that you do so in an effort to pay all of your bills. Could you meet all of your financial obligations if that service was the ONLY one you worked for, or if you had to drive 1-2 hours one way to another job?
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Actually I make $20/hr plus overtime plus benefits. All hours paid. I actually pay all my bills with that job. I drive over 200 miles one way to get there.

I work regular part time about 3 days a month at another service and make similiar but do it more for the challenge.

I also will occasionally fill in for 3 other locations but usually no more than 1 day a month and not every month. I make sure I have at least 15 days a month off work. Including at least 1 off period that is 7 days long.

My part time jobs pay for me and my family to travel when and where we want.
 
Okay, I'm not going to lie, I only really skimmed this whole thread just to see if the OP had gotten his question answered, which it doesn't look like.

OP, in Colorado you have to complete an extra 24 hour class to get your IV certification. You can do that at nearly any community college that offers an EMS program, you just need a valid, current copy of your state EMT certification and health insurance (for the clinical). Once you've finished the course, you'll be "certified" to start IVs, do blood draws, do glucose checks, and administer D50 and Narcan IN.

The 24 hour course covers reasons you would give an IV, what fluids there are and how they affect the cells, drug calculations (not so the basic can administer but so they have a better understand of ALS procedures) and IV administration techniques. Then you get to do a few clinical rotations in a busy trauma center to practice your skills.

Keep in mind, the rest of you, that most ambulances outside of the metro Denver area in Colorado are ALS ambulances, staffed mostly with one paramedic and one basic. The basic is always receiving advice and training from their partner on how to improve their skills and understand the deeper meanings behind fluid administration beyond class. They don't just throw a no-nothing kid in back with needles and yell "have fun!"
 
WOW 24 hours. Now I feel very safe and secure. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Not nearly enough time for even just IV much less the other items you include.
 
medic417 said:
WOW 24 hours. Now I feel very safe and secure. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

Not nearly enough time for even just IV much less the other items you include.
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So. just how much education to you feel cannulating a vein takes ?

(forgive spacing. typing on my phone.)
 
Linuss said:
Obviously more than my "proper education" provides.
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But how much? forgive me, i may have missed it but what do thopponents of basics gaining iv access feel is an adequate amount of proper education to safely cannulate a vein? how much education did you get on it?
 
Sasha said:
But how much? forgive me, i may have missed it but what do thopponents of basics gaining iv access feel is an adequate amount of proper education to safely cannulate a vein? how much education did you get on it?
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I've been asking that question for 9 pages now without so much as an answer.

For some reason, they think that "proper education" is not enough. Funny. I thought it was called proper for a reason.
 
Linuss said:
I've been asking that question for 9 pages now without so much as an answer.

For some reason, they think that "proper education" is not enough. Funny. I thought it was called proper for a reason.
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Proper education is a Paramedic course from a quality program. What we have been saying for the last 9 pages that all these add on certs are part of what is killing EMS. The best idea would be do away with basic and have Paramedic be the minimum.
 
medic417 said:
all these add on certs are part of what is killing EMS.
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Wait wait wait. So, you're saying more education is a must, but when it comes to more certs, WHICH REQUIRE EDUCATION, that's bad for EMS?



Now, I understand not wanting an alphabet soup of abbreviates, but c'mon.


As I stated a couple pages back, an I should be the lowest level and B gone, but alas, the country as a whole is going in the opposite direction, having B's and P's and not I's (with exceptions). So why not, WITH EDUCATION, have the B's fill the void?


You will have no valid answer to that because it does not exist. There is no reason not to let someone do something if they are properly educated and certified, and has an MC.
 
Linuss said:
Wait wait wait. So, you're saying more education is a must, but when it comes to more certs, WHICH REQUIRE EDUCATION, that's bad for EMS?



Now, I understand not wanting an alphabet soup of abbreviates, but c'mon.


As I stated a couple pages back, an I should be the lowest level and B gone, but alas, the country as a whole is going in the opposite direction, having B's and P's and not I's (with exceptions). So why not, WITH EDUCATION, have the B's fill the void?


You will have no valid answer to that because it does not exist. There is no reason not to let someone do something if they are properly educated and certified, and has an MC.
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A 24 hour TRAINING cert is NOT education. If one does not understand the rest of the A&P behind that skill, it is just "training for a skill" with a few indications to "get by" until you get to the ED.

Welders get a better understanding of their craft and they have also realized the need for an EDUCATION to make themselves more marketable and to compliment their "skills".

Once EMS starts to understand the difference between the votech mentality of training and actual education, it will then start to progress.

I think it is time to make a reference to this thread:

Basics before Advanced

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=4830

And NO, it is not referring to EMT-B vs Paramedic.
 
Vent, show me where I said 24 hours is proper? Heres a hint: I didn't.


So for time 7;

With proper education and clinical time, there is not a single logical reason not to.
 
I don't see what the problem is with the country "going the other way" and only allowing uneducated and untrained providers to perform minimal interventions. Fact is, that's entirely appropriate. Just as the EMT-I (or whatever the hell it's called in various states) is an inappropriate thing to have. For instance, in Oregon it is possible to go from nobody to EMT-I (which has a huge scope of practice...not a lot less than a paramedic) with only 260 hours of education. Think that's appropriate? Think that's a proper education for all that they are now allowed? The fact that people are starting to wise up to that fact and remove EMT-I's is great.

If you are a basic and want to do more of those fun things you can't now then suck it up and go to paramedic school. Don't look for a short cut. As someone has allready said, the proper education for even starting an IV in EMS is a paramedic's education.

Live with it.
 
Proper education would be 14 months. It is called Paramedic school!!
 
Linuss said:
I've been asking that question for 9 pages now without so much as an answer.

For some reason, they think that "proper education" is not enough. Funny. I thought it was called proper for a reason.
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Three years. Why do things half arse? If you receive the proper education truly needed; then you would be an educated Paramedic. Now this has been answered, we can close this mindless thread.

R/r 911
 
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See, was that so hard. Damn, for a bunch of people with college educations none of us can understand eachother.

Logic gets lost in feelings far too often.
 
That's enough of this one.
 
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