Interesting moral/ethical situation

[Robby1974]

I struggled with this situation for about a week. What would you do? Ok this happened a while ago when I was in my basic course. I walked by a group of students while on a lunch break and saw a group of them standing around a copy of the quiz that we had taken that morning. This was unusual because no one is supposed to take the test out of the class. Later that day a fellow student approached me and asked if I wanted a copy of the test to study by. I asked him how he got ahold of the test and he indicated that another student had taken it and made a copy while we were reviewing our answers after tests were graded. It turned out that this student had made copies of all of our weekly quizzes (5 total up to that point). This ended up being quite the conundrum for me as I was forced into a situation where I felt I had to approach the instructor but if I did approximately 10 students could be dismissed. I had no desire to get these students expelled, they were all good kids and good student's for that matter. So I was torn. What would you do?

I'll post what I did and the conclusion once I get some feedback.

 

[Code 3]

I would politely tell the student, "No thanks", and then e-mail the professor that I had reason to believe that quizzes were being copied outside of class.

 

[phabib]

That is tough but I would tell my instructor. This isn't High School anymore and these people are going to be responsible for real patients. There is no cheating there. Honestly, would you want a family member being treated by one of these people? I don't, I'd like to think that any EMT coming to get me at the very least completed the course and has all the knowledge.

If they won't even bother to learn the basics in the course, they are going to be horrible EMTs.

 

[mycrofft]

Try this.

Stand up in class and announce to the instructor you have hearsay reason to believe the materials were compromised and then sit down. You will be directed to tell them who it is, and you truthfully say that the information is hearsay, but possibly reliable. If classmates come to you later, tell them the alternative was for you to list who you saw with the purported test, but either way, "Homey don't play that".

Or quit the polluted class and drop in again with a later class, your MD might help you with a note.

But act fast. Each instance you witness without reporting it makes you an accomplice.

PS: the instructor may not be your friend here, it's a mark on the instructor for not securing the materials.

 

[AlaskaEMT]

Who cares?

Look, you'll run into approximately 900 similar situations in your lifetime. Here's a good rule of thumb... if it has the potential to physically harm, bring it to someone's attention.

 

[ffemt8978]

I'd report it to the instructor. Let's face it, EMS (especially at the basic level), is not rocket science. However, we are responsible for the lives and well being of our patients. If you were the patient, would you want the person treating you to have cheated to get there?

 

[AlaskaEMT]

I disagree. The poster is responsible for his patients. His cheating classmates must jump through several hoops before they are given the responsibility of patient care, namely a written/practical and a hiring process somewhere. These two hurdles are meant to filter out undesirables. YOU are not the filter.

 

[ffemt8978]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, then.

To me it comes down to integrity. Doing the right thing even when nobody is watching. This was ingrained into me in the military, and is one of my core values. I can't stand people who cheat.

 

[AlaskaEMT]

That's exactly what this thread is about... the poster is asking us for advice regarding his classmates that have so little integrity they begin cheating as soon as the teacher walks away.

His classmates will not somehow gain integrity via osmosis after he turns them in. It won't solve anything. Let them fail the class. Or pass, if they do. That's how the free market works, that's how the animal kingdom works, and that's how real life works. Let the system filter them out. When you become management, filter away.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Wait, they got a copy of the test AFTER it was given? I don't see how that helps boost their grades?

 

[Code 3]

Wait, they got a copy of the test AFTER it was given? I don't see how that helps boost their grades?

It doesn't help boost their grades, but the OP stated that you're not allowed to take the test outside of the classroom. Basically, that teacher will now have to re-write all future tests because who knows how many copies were made and where they will end up.

This was unusual because no one is supposed to take the test out of the class

 

[Robby1974]

Clarification

"Wait, they got a copy of the test AFTER it was given? I don't see how that helps boost their grades?"

they copied the test for the purposes of studying for the midterm or final. The student's felt that some of the questions would be repeated on those exams.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

It doesn't help boost their grades, but the OP stated that you're not allowed to take the test outside of the classroom. Basically, that teacher will now have to re-write all future tests because who knows how many copies were made and where they will end up.

Oh, you mean physically take the exam as in physically remove the exam.

I was thinking take the exam as in sitting the exam out of the class, in which case if it had already been given it didn't make much sense at all.

 

[Robby1974]

oops

Oh, you mean physically take the exam as in physically remove the exam.

I was thinking take the exam as in sitting the exam out of the class, in which case if it had already been given it didn't make much sense at all.

ROFLOL yeah. I see what you mean.........I writed that not too good....but im not a soopid but...uh....my teacher says i'm special....I even have a special spot at the back of the bus.

Ok maybe i am a little mentally challenged...I pitty the poor shmo who has to decipher my PCR.

Yeah I meant that the student removed the test from the room to make a photocopy of it in the office supply room located near the classroom.

 

[tatersalad]

I'm a little old school about things like this.

People cheating to get through the class devalues the end result, including your successful completion of the class. It also shows, to me at least, a complete lack of regard for the rules and a lack of commitment on the part of the students involved.

I don't want anyone who can't handle the coursework on their own working on me or my family.

I would talk to the instructor, but outside of the class.

If the students are dismissed from the program for cheating, that is a result of their own actions. You wouldn't have been responsible, they would.

 

[stephenrb81]

Ultimately it boils down to your own convictions and morals. The student is aware the test material was not to be taken out of the room, hence why student secretly made a copy. It's your choice on whether or not you want to 'rock the boat'

Personally, I hope the student making copies is caught and dropped from the program. The ones that are also utilizing the test should be placed on probation or dropped.

Harsh, maybe, but hell....If they can't act professional as a student, then what hope do they have being professional on the road. My opinion: They have NO RIGHT to be in EMS!

 

[MRE]

Bring it to the attention of the instructor.

Its not your fault that 10 people in your class do not deserve to be there.

 

[flhtci01]

Bring it to the attention of your instructor. Any one of the 10 had the same opportunity in order to avoid being dropped from the class prior this point.

 

[Robby1974]

Final answer?

The tests are now numbered and there is more supervision as I brought it to the attention of my instructor's administrative assistant. The person who made the copies of the test (I later found out) had been previously arrested for having 15 pounds of (mari ja wanna) in his trunk so will have difficulty getting a job or even being an EMT. I think he might be able to do security in a local casino but that's about it (they dont allow very much intervention until FD or private arrives). He didn't pass his National Registry written either so he had to drop from the Intermediate class. No one was dropped from the program for it and I wasn't required to name names. All's well that ends well. The moral of the story. They cheated themselves by trying to take a shortcut to studying. None of the questions on our quizzes were actually on the final exam. Similar questions were but not repeat questions.

Great posts guys!

 

[MMiz]

My policy as a teacher is that I don't want to hear anyone tell on another student unless someone's well being is at stake. As both a student and a teacher I would not have told my instructor, and I would not have accepted a copy of the test.