Hat's off to EMT-B's

Yea, Hatr's off to ya emt-b, what would we do without you. It would be horrible, we would have all these highly trained paramedics with college level educations running around taking care of us. Damn that, when I'm having an MI, I want a quick BP check and a ride. I don't want no fancy morphine or 12 lead EKG either. Just take me on over to Doc Brown's house so he can give me a tranquilizer. I've just been tired lately and haven't been able to sleep, that's all it is. It's not like we can afford those fancy paramedics anyway, you must think we live in the richest country in the world or something. People just don't understand our way of life out in the rural parts, you need those paramedics to be close to the city, that way bettie-sue-joe-bobby-2-teeth-mary can take care of me. She has been a CNA for years and bless her heart, she's just the sweetest thing. She took that emt-b class down at the firehall and you know, they took out all that useless medical jargon.
 
Admin note - corrected spelling in thread title.
 
I have worked with very outstanding basic EMT's that could run circles around any Paramedic. Worked with two that had graduate level in molecular biology and never wanted to "proceed" past the basic level. Although, I believe that was a waste, he could had offered so much to patients and EMS system.

No, I don't hate or even dislike any Basic when we used to have basics, they preferred to ride with me, because I have always thought as a team approach. No matter, whom is in the back.. it is both EMS personal on the call, and both will go to court, if something wrong happens no matter whom is in the back. as long as both are patient conscious, the patient will have a great team.

In closing, all I will say is many will be surprised by the new 2008 EMT curriculum.

R/r 911
 
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Ridryder911 said:
I have worked with very outstanding basic EMT's that could run circles around any Paramedic. Worked with two that had graduate level in molecular biology and never wanted to "proceed" past the basic level. Although, I believe that was a waste, he could had offered so much to patients and EMS system.

No, I don't hate or even dislike any Basic when we used to have basics, they preferred to ride with me, because I have always thought as a team approach. No matter, whom is in the back.. it is both EMS personal on the call, and both will go to court, if something wrong happens no matter whom is in the back. as long as both are patient conscious, the patient will have a great team.

In closing, all I will say is many will be surprised by the new 2008 EMT curriculum.
R/r 911
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Thank you Ridryder! You have surprized me on here! You actually did not put them down. What you said, was for the most part, well said!

What is surprising about the 2008 curriculum?
 
emt-basics are great. I work with a lot of emt-basics and think the world of them. My girlfriend is an emt-b. Currently, our ems system wouldn't work without emt-basics. This is because of our failure to demand ALS in every ems system. My last post was meant to show what we have now compared to what we could have. As an als provider, wouldn't you rather an als provider take care of you or your family instead of a bls provider, all things being equal.

I'm going to be disappointed no matter how the new emt curriculum has changed. Education won't increase, maybe they'll have a few new skills but that will only show that ems is dumbing down even more so that emt-basics can play a larger role in advanced care (without the proper education) and thus, there will be even fewer paramedics. On the other hand, I can't imagine emt-basics losing any skills considering how few they have now but if that happens, it will just be sad. Either way, the new curriculum is going to suck.
 
Ridryder911 said:
In closing, all I will say is many will be surprised by the new 2008 EMT curriculum.

R/r 911
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Any idea when the new curriculum will come out? I am planning to teach another class in the spring and wondering should I wait or just start anyway.
 
In closing, all I will say is many will be surprised by the new 2008 EMT curriculum.
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yes, i'm sure that book sales will soar, while everyone debates why the powers that be have feverently slaved away trying to fix what isn't broken

~S~
 
Guardian said:
emt-basics are great. I work with a lot of emt-basics and think the world of them. My girlfriend is an emt-b. Currently, our ems system wouldn't work without emt-basics. This is because of our failure to demand ALS in every ems system. My last post was meant to show what we have now compared to what we could have. As an als provider, wouldn't you rather an als provider take care of you or your family instead of a bls provider, all things being equal.

I'm going to be disappointed no matter how the new emt curriculum has changed. Education won't increase, maybe they'll have a few new skills but that will only show that ems is dumbing down even more so that emt-basics can play a larger role in advanced care (without the proper education) and thus, there will be even fewer paramedics. On the other hand, I can't imagine emt-basics losing any skills considering how few they have now but if that happens, it will just be sad. Either way, the new curriculum is going to suck.
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In our area it's not that the agencies don't want to hire paramedics, it's just that there aren't any to apply. For example, at the last agency I worked, when I started we were an all ALS agency with all paramedic/paramedic trucks. After a couple of years we slowing transitioning to a combination agency, now it's pretty much 50/50; paramedics and EMT's. But it wasn't the agencies fault or intent. For every 4 paramedic openings you would have 2 applications and of those 2; 1 was guaranteed to be any idiot. I know, I used to do new applicant assessments.

I don't know about the rest of the country, but there is a large paramedic shortage in this state and the state beside us, where I used to work. I just think this day and time with so many choices to pick in college courses, most young people are going into something that is more lucrative. Most of the new paramedics were the ones who came up through the ranks, started out as a volley EMT somewhere and decided to get their medic. And these happened to be the better paramedics. So what is the answer? I don't know. It seems to be a double edged sword, do you shoot for more education and licensure? at the risk of having even a less number of paramedics to apply and hope the money goes up. And then will it become like nursing, making good money but still having a large shortage of providers. Or do you stay the same or lower the standards to try to generate more interest?
 
Actually the curriculum review is being sent away as we discuss for initial evaluation. Rumor ( as usual) is there going to be a shift of giving basics more education in science and detailed assessment skills.

Paramedic level will have more basic interaction, and as well have most of the CCEMT/P doctrines incorporated into the program.

I do disagree adamantly that the system is not broke. Some of the Basic EMT texts are now only written at a 6'th grade level and many institutions are now having a hard time allowing college credit and other similar standards due to the lax educational standards. I agree dumbgrading is not the answer for replacing empty spots, actually quite the opposite.

When and after review of curriculum changes, there will be a public review and critique to allow in-put. Please remember, we should maintain and request higher standards than we currently have. It should not matter if one is paid, volunteer, metro or rural... EMS and patient care should have continuity and diluting the education is not the answer to personnel problems.
Our patients and emergency medicine requires we increase the knowledge level to provide current medical care.

I will post the site for reviews, as soon as I hear or receive information in regards to the new curriculum.

R/r 911
 
Fedmedic said:
So what is the answer? I don't know. It seems to be a double edged sword, do you shoot for more education and licensure? at the risk of having even a less number of paramedics to apply and hope the money goes up. And then will it become like nursing, making good money but still having a large shortage of providers. Or do you stay the same or lower the standards to try to generate more interest?
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I really don't think they can lower standards. They are already pretty low.

Note that the following sentence is fancifull:

I tend to think that if a national increase in standards for education and entry into BLS and ALS levels can be coupled with an increase in scope and a change at the state and federal level regarding reimbursement including classifying EMS as an essential service, then we will see an increase in quality of care, an increase in pay and benefits, and decreased attrition in providers.

That nasty runon sentence above is a hard thing to dream of accomplishing. One thing EMS has going for it is, at least around here, all EMS classes are affiliated with a university or community college even if taught off campus. That means that EMS education need not suffer the same fate as nursing did in many states when many nursing schools were unable or unwilling to join univerities and closed leading to a drastic decrease in slots. So ability to educate the same number of paramedics will not suffer. If attrition decreases, the available paramedics will increase because the profession is a workable one. One thing EMS doesn't have going for it that nursing did have was that nursing was already integrated into the hospital care system and therefor it was easier to adjust salaries.

Presently, for most providers in most places, EMS is not a feasible lifetime career. Canada has a good system going I thinik with PCP/ACP/CCP. Can you even imagine a 1 year program requirement for BLS?

I was going to write more but it is snowing. WOOHOO! :D
 
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It is one thing to be taught, but it even means more to be taught well. It is important to understand the theory that goes with the skills. I have been on both sides of the desk along with being on both sides of the gurney, and let me tell you folks, being on both ends has taught me to how to be a good (and always work on getting better!) EMT and when the time comes, a good paramedic. (ditto!) I often think about the folks that I have worked with and taught me about caring for the sick and injured, these folks were my first teachers, to this day I will say because of these great folks became my mentors. The paramedics, emts, and nurses that have been instructors in the various classes that I have taken through the years have not only taught me "whats in the book" but also their real life experience. I strongly believe that is one of the best teaching tools that an instructor could have. This website alone, has given me a chance to keep on learning from all aspects of EMS. Two words for you all, THANK YOU!!!:)
 
I do disagree adamantly that the system is not broke. Some of the Basic EMT texts are now only written at a 6'th grade level and many institutions are now having a hard time allowing college credit and other similar standards due to the lax educational standards.
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that's odd R/r 911, seems like the majority of ems personel i've worked with in the last 20 years didn't get into it to pursue college , or have even attended college at all....

seems they can articulate better than a 6th grade level too....

perhaps you should clarify your educational stance, if only for the many misfortunates that have been so woefully misled for so long

yrs

~S~
 
Stevo said:
that's odd R/r 911, seems like the majority of ems personel i've worked with in the last 20 years didn't get into it to pursue college , or have even attended college at all....

seems they can articulate better than a 6th grade level too....

perhaps you should clarify your educational stance, if only for the many misfortunates that have been so woefully misled for so long

yrs

~S~
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I didn't get into EMS to pursue college but if I want to stay in it and do my pts. justice then I will need to. I hate the thought of going back to school but I study all the time anyways.
As far as the books this is true. I can read higher than a 6th grade level but that does not mean the books were not writen higher than that.
 
Jeepmedic imparts a revelation

I didn't get into EMS to pursue college
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and ems was not created for it's bulk to pursue it either, im(rarely humble)o

so i ask in this forum (yet again, for the nth time) , do we wish to elevate ems to a profession that takes away from the proliferation of responders out there?

quality/quantity....(as the dogs painted in velvet continue to cheat at poker....)

extra credit Q~ what was the premis of ems's inception

~S (oh the humaity)tevo~
 
so i ask in this forum (yet again, for the nth time) , do we wish to elevate ems to a profession that takes away from the proliferation of responders out there?
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It is not what EMS started out to be but what it has evolved into. The first Nurses did not have to go to school they just studied under another nurse and we made one. Now as time passes It is hard to find just a RN program it is moving more and more toward a BSN is the standard in Nursing.

To answer your question Yes we need and should wish to elevate EMS to a profession. But not one that leaves its roots behind. We do and will always need First Responders but the general public expects more and more out of an EMT-B and they do deserve more. You look at it now. In some states a RN only has to send money in to there state to keep there RN Lic. while an EMT at any level has to have a min. of 36 hours to keep there Cert. This by itself is making it harder and harder for most Vollys to keep there Cert. up. So yes you do need and should try move this profession foward. If you are not moving foward then you are only going to get left behind.
 
Jeepmedic tries for the kewpie doll

but what it has evolved into
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who or what factions are insiting we walk upright Jeepmedic ? Think about this for a moment, the spectre of $$$ looms very close to the heart of this statement.

Yes we need and should wish to elevate EMS to a profession. But not one that leaves its roots behind.
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it's roots were (and by rights still are) community service, removing the availability of being able to do this creates an expense that the majority of the populance can't afford to fund

as in 45 million Americans who we turn our backs on every time we insist the ante' be upped...

~S~
 
Stevo said:
Jeepmedic tries for the kewpie doll


who or what factions are insiting we walk upright Jeepmedic ? Think about this for a moment, the spectre of $$$ looms very close to the heart of this statement.



it's roots were (and by rights still are) community service, removing the availability of being able to do this creates an expense that the majority of the populance can't afford to fund

as in 45 million Americans who we turn our backs on every time we insist the ante' be upped...

~S~
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You have a point.
 
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