Gold Cross Ambulance Strike

MMiz

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How do federal regulators keep anyone from dying?

How is AMR picking up extra business putting money in Gold Cross' bank account?

Federal regulators and mediators can require workers continue to work, as if they weren't striking, during ongoing negotiations. There are laws that regulate cooling off periods and most parts of a job action.

Scab workers allow the company to continue to function, albeit in a diminished capacity, during a strike. The company would not be able to funds ion, and the executives would face increased pressure, without scab workers.

Again, I'm not here to argue whether any side is right or wrong. Scab workers and companies undermine the efforts of the workers on strike. I couldn't do it, but clearly others are willing to cross the picket line.
 

exodus

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They are not able to function though. They are losing money and generating NO revenue at all.

When the grocers went on strike, was it inappropriate for other grocery stores to remain open and sell goods? Isn't this the same thing?
 

Jim37F

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Federal regulators and mediators can require workers continue to work, as if they weren't striking, during ongoing negotiations. There are laws that regulate cooling off periods and most parts of a job action.

Scab workers allow the company to continue to function, albeit in a diminished capacity, during a strike. The company would not be able to funds ion, and the executives would face increased pressure, without scab workers.

Again, I'm not here to argue whether any side is right or wrong. Scab workers and companies undermine the efforts of the workers on strike. I couldn't do it, but clearly others are willing to cross the picket line.

But unless Gold Cross is able to bill a patient and collect a payment when AMR responds, treats and transports under mutual aid, these other companies responding aren't scabbing.
 
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socalmedic

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MMIZ, you are terribly mistaken and apparently do not fully understand what is happening.

1. the AMR units that are responding to the area are UNION AMBULANCES as well. their union is aware of what is happening and approves of it. thus they cannot be scabs as they are union employees acting under the direction of their union.

2. they are not scabs because they are not crossing gold cross ambulances picket lines. running a call in the area does not equate to running a call for gold cross.

3. the strike is doing exactly what it is meant to do, there is an absolute work stoppage and gold cross is not able to bill for any services right now. additionally because they have no ambulances on the road they are getting fined for every call which is run by mutual aid.

4. the calls are going to be run regardless of whom gets called. if amr is requested they WILL send an ambulance. are you advocating for someone to wait 2 hours for an ambulance to drive from riverside county or blyth? GCA is getting fined the same whether AMR takes 2 hours or 15 min, why not have an ambulance or two posted in the area.

5. I cannot believe that you are actually advocating for mediators to order the union back to work for a cool off period. doing this will allow GCA to once again generate bills, how is that beneficial to the union?

6. here is some riverside history for you, when AMR riverside went on strike 5 years ago AMR brought in non-union paramedics from out of state to work on AMR ambulances. this is an example of SCAB labor, the key is they are non-union and working for the company which is in the labor dispute. BTW this labor cost AMR alot of money!!! more than they ended up paying in the new CBA over its entire term, AMR will spend any amount of money to try to break a union.


disclaimer: I am a union employee, my union has a no strike - no lockout clause. we believe it is unethical to strike and leave our community, which most of us live in, unprotected. Despite this we are the highest paid division in the area, and in the top 5 of the country. our oldest front-line ambulance has 104k miles. yes, I work for the Borg. if the company knows that we will not strike, how is it that we have all this? there are better ways of getting what you want than striking and we have some geniuses who are on our side of the table.
 

Handsome Robb

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Why would Gold Cross bill for transports that AMR does in GC's area?

When we run mutual aid we bill for it, not the agency we are helping. That's how I understand it at least.

I, admittedly, no nothing about unions and how they operate. Never been a part of one. They seem like there are a lot of benefits but they also seem like they have the ability to cause a lot of problems.

I know when a province in Canada had their ambulance service on strike the way the union contract was written they still staffed ambulances and responded to calls albeit at a minimal level of staffing. I think there are times and places for strikes but I also think in certain services (ie EMS) that they are inappropriate. Like SoCal said, it's ridiculous to leave an area without any EMS.
 
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DesertMedic66

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MMIZ, you are terribly mistaken and apparently do not fully understand what is happening.

1. the AMR units that are responding to the area are UNION AMBULANCES as well. their union is aware of what is happening and approves of it. thus they cannot be scabs as they are union employees acting under the direction of their union.

2. they are not scabs because they are not crossing gold cross ambulances picket lines. running a call in the area does not equate to running a call for gold cross.

3. the strike is doing exactly what it is meant to do, there is an absolute work stoppage and gold cross is not able to bill for any services right now. additionally because they have no ambulances on the road they are getting fined for every call which is run by mutual aid.

4. the calls are going to be run regardless of whom gets called. if amr is requested they WILL send an ambulance. are you advocating for someone to wait 2 hours for an ambulance to drive from riverside county or blyth? GCA is getting fined the same whether AMR takes 2 hours or 15 min, why not have an ambulance or two posted in the area.

5. I cannot believe that you are actually advocating for mediators to order the union back to work for a cool off period. doing this will allow GCA to once again generate bills, how is that beneficial to the union?

6. here is some riverside history for you, when AMR riverside went on strike 5 years ago AMR brought in non-union paramedics from out of state to work on AMR ambulances. this is an example of SCAB labor, the key is they are non-union and working for the company which is in the labor dispute. BTW this labor cost AMR alot of money!!! more than they ended up paying in the new CBA over its entire term, AMR will spend any amount of money to try to break a union.


disclaimer: I am a union employee, my union has a no strike - no lockout clause. we believe it is unethical to strike and leave our community, which most of us live in, unprotected. Despite this we are the highest paid division in the area, and in the top 5 of the country. our oldest front-line ambulance has 104k miles. yes, I work for the Borg. if the company knows that we will not strike, how is it that we have all this? there are better ways of getting what you want than striking and we have some geniuses who are on our side of the table.

Not all of the AMR divisions that are covering for them are union.
 

Handsome Robb

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And morals aside. What gives them the right to destroy property taking emergency serviced out of service. I hope they catch the people who did it and lock them up for a while and get that felony on their record. We don't want those people around.

This. 100%

I understand what they're getting at with this strike and if I worked their I'd probably be right alongside them in it.

With that said. Do not tamper with and/or destroy other crews' and companies' equipment. Especially if it messes with patient care.

I said it in an off duty thread, EMS is a job and it stops when I clock out but at the end of the day we do have times where a patient's life is in danger and without properly functioning equipment there may be nothing we can do. If the tampering resulted in a death I personally wouldn't b opposed to a manslaughter charge or even a murder 3 charge depending on the situation.
 

exodus

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Why would Gold Cross bill for transports that AMR does in GC's area?

When we run mutual aid we bill for it, not the agency we are helping. That's how I understand it at least.

I, admittedly, no nothing about unions and how they operate. Never been a part of one. They seem like there are a lot of benefits but they also seem like they have the ability to cause a lot of problems.

I know when a province in Canada had their ambulance service on strike the way the union contract was written they still staffed ambulances and responded to calls albeit at a minimal level of staffing. I think there are times and places for strikes but I also think in certain services (ie EMS) that they are inappropriate. Like SoCal said, it's ridiculous to leave an area without any EMS.

We bill the patient, not GC. GC Is completely locked out as far as bringing in revenue until this strike is over.
 

MMiz

I put the M in EMTLife
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I can't find a single news story about this, are you sure it happened, or is something you heard from a friend of a friend of a neighbor?

If it did happen, it's unfortunate and uncalled for. Still, theorizing about a manslaughter or murder charge for tampering with an emergency vehicle is a bit out there, no? No one died as a result of the incident.

You should have seen how a few AMR employees acted out when they shut down the local AMR station. Did I hold all of AMR accountable for their behavior? Absolutely not. AMR's ability to provide a relatively consistent and professional product at a national scale is impressive and raises the bar for many EMS services.

Of the three companies responding to mutual aid calls for Gold Coast Ambulance, I don't know of a single one that is all union. It's quite clear from the news stories that non-union workers, even with AMR, are responding to calls.

Please Google "scab worker" before continuing to argue over the technicalities of the definition.

No need to brag about being a union employee, I'm not really sure there is anything worth bragging about. You work for one of the highest paid divisions because you work in a region with one of the the highest costs of living in the nation. It's surely not because of your pious company of tactful negotiators.

I can appreciate the hordes of AMRers coming to the defense of the mothership, but I once again go back to my original and only point.

AMR employees and other services that are serving the area are undermining Gold Coast Ambulance's efforts to gain safe equipment, fair compensation, and career stability. I don't care if it's EMS, there is something to be said about advancing the profession by not crossing a picket line.

That's my final contribution to the thread. No need to agree to disagree, just make sure what you're doing serves the greater good.
 
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Jim37F

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MMiz, how is a completely separate company responding to requests for medical aid hurting efforts by GC employees to improve their working conditions?

They are not crossing picket lines to crew Gold Cross ambulances and bill to GC bank accounts.

Gold Cross is still shut down, they're not receiving any income because they're not transporting any patients.

The strike is having exactly the same effect on management as if there was no mutual aid being provided, except the residents in the Gold Cross service area still have emergency medical services. How is this a bad thing?
 

MonkeySquasher

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Oh my, this thread escalated quickly.


Emts around here generally make 9-10$ p/h , not sure about medics. I do know when rural/metro had the strike over In new york for like a day, we where being sent over to work that week.

Highlander, did you come to NY? As a Supervisor or as an employee? Either way, if you got treated like crap for being brought in to work the area, I apologize. People, especially in Buffalo, got carried away. Up here in Niagara Falls we made fun of the scabs, but it was more of a party atmosphere. haha


ENTIRE POST OF BULLSH....stuff.

Hm, one post in outrageous defense of the company and union-bashing. This seems legit. :glare:

Here in NY we kept it civil. A few things happen... Someone took all the antennae for the portable radios, a cup of dipspit was thrown at a supervisor's car... But no actual permanent damages. Why? Because these are the same people that, when the strike is over, you still have to go back to work with.

As a general rule, if the person is hired by the company to work the job that a Union worker should fill, for the length of the strike, they are considered a scab. Bringing in outside salaried employees of the same company does not make them scabs, they're still employees working in a different capacity. In EMS, activating mutual aid agreements does not make them scabs, they are employed by a completely separate company that is just stealing the calls.

In a strike between union and ambulance service, we all have a job to do and a process to follow. On the union side, we make our claims, walk off the job, do it professionally, and then walk the picket lines. You don't cross the line, you don't help the company, you don't help anyone the company uses to cover the call volumes. But you don't sabotage them either. On the company side, they're losing the work force, and have to fill the seats any way they can. This means salaried employees and scabs. If they can't find enough of those, they still have to ensure minimally interrupted service to the community to avoid community and political backlash. This means mutual aid activation. This takes the call away from, in this case, Gold Cross, and money out of their pockets. But the call still gets handled, a person gets the care they need, and another company profits from it.

So given an extended ETA (and seeing $$$, I'm sure) the company decides to just forego the long drive and preemptively put units in the area.

tl;dr - I can understand both sides of the coin, having just gone through something similar. No, employees or other mutual aid companies are not scabs. Even the union ones.. They aren't crossing a picket line, they're responding to a formal mutual aid agreement. Those are two separate things. But does this agreement handle calls and make it easier for Gold Cross to survive the strike and take leverage away from the union? It does. To say that 'people are going to die!' is correct, but lets remember that many of our patient's medical outcomes are decided before EMS is even activated.

Bottom line, I feel private for-profit companies have no place in EMS. Period. I feel all EMS nation-wide should be either municipal or a not-for-profit paid organization.
 
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exodus

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To say that 'people are going to die!' is correct, but lets remember that many of our patient's medical outcomes are decided before EMS is even activated.

I want to just comment on this point, I am speaking towards time sensitive conditions such as MI's and strokes, where a 10 minute response makes a huge difference over a 30 minute response.
 

MonkeySquasher

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I want to just comment on this point, I am speaking towards time sensitive conditions such as MI's and strokes, where a 10 minute response makes a huge difference over a 30 minute response.

lol Don't worry, I knew what you meant. I was just remarking that many of our patient's conditions are either stable and remain stable, or their fate is sealed before we have any contact. Those few cases of STEMI/CVA/SCA and a few other cases that are well within a viable window of treatment are the ones that will suffer, but they also tend to be a small percentage of transports. So a proper usage of scab-ulances and mutual aid would provide coverage for those transports, let BLS ones hold a bit, and the system works.
 

DesertMedic66

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From a source within the drama I got some information.

Apparently tomorrow if the company is still on strike they will have breached their contact with the county/area and their contract will be up for bid by other companies.

Also a clause in the employees contract with the company allowed the company to take every employee who is striking and move them from full time employment to part time. They are hiring medics and EMTs to perminatly fill all the open full time shifts.
 

TRSpeed

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From a source within the drama I got some information.

Apparently tomorrow if the company is still on strike they will have breached their contact with the county/area and their contract will be up for bid by other companies.

Also a clause in the employees contract with the company allowed the company to take every employee who is striking and move them from full time employment to part time. They are hiring medics and EMTs to perminatly fill all the open full time shifts.
Ouchhh
 

CALEMT

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From a source within the drama I got some information.

Apparently tomorrow if the company is still on strike they will have breached their contact with the county/area and their contract will be up for bid by other companies.

Also a clause in the employees contract with the company allowed the company to take every employee who is striking and move them from full time employment to part time. They are hiring medics and EMTs to perminatly fill all the open full time shifts.

Wonder if AMR will jump on that? I've also heard rumors that Gold Cross has replaced all of the employees that were on strike any insight on that?
 

PotatoMedic

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...Also a clause in the employees contract with the company allowed the company to take every employee who is striking and move them from full time employment to part time. They are hiring medics and EMTs to perminatly fill all the open full time shifts.


Would they be required to join the union? If not how does that work? Last time I checked, if a company wants to "get rid of the union" they have to shut down completely and start a new company. IE the Walmart method to prevent unions.
 

Jim37F

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Would they be required to join the union? If not how does that work? Last time I checked, if a company wants to "get rid of the union" they have to shut down completely and start a new company. IE the Walmart method to prevent unions.

I thought Walmarts method was just to straight up fire anyone they merely thought was interested in forming a union
 

PotatoMedic

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I thought Walmarts method was just to straight up fire anyone they merely thought was interested in forming a union

I remember hearing about a Walmart that unionized. They shut that store down. built a new one across the street and hired new workers. I think it was said they had to finish closing the store before they could even start buying land and applying for permits. Something about labor laws.
 

BLZ54

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I've heard similar comments regarding the county's termination of Gold Cross's services. There have been quite a few "strikers" that have crossed the line as of late due to a multitude of reasons such as simply needing a paycheck to realizing that their actions are getting out of hand.

Though dismissed by some as outlandish, a few of the rigs were found to have been tampered with several weeks ago with paper towels in the air ducts and a blue "jello-like" substance in the radiators.

Of course there have been some genuine problems with the rigs which unfortunate, but a fact of life considering the harsh weather conditions that the Imperial Valley faces. What's not okay is for "scabbers" and outside agencies to be threatened for continuing to provide service to the residents of the county regardless of the union's complaints.

I understand that working conditions can be poor, especially in the Imperial Valley where many companies take advantage of the unassuming nature of its employees which leads to events such as we are currently experiencing. Though everyone needs to be able to support their family with the wages they earn, only so much can be expected when it is well known ahead of time that this field does not pay as lavishly as it does in other areas. When comparing the pay of a Paramedic to a Nurse in the Imperial Valley, it is understandable that many people are fighting tooth and nail for higher pay. $25-29/hour for nursing compared to $9-11/hour for EMS is a huge difference and though each field requires a different amount of time in which to earn its respective certification, this provides those who are unsatisfied ammunition against their employers for better compensation.


From a source within the drama I got some information.

Apparently tomorrow if the company is still on strike they will have breached their contact with the county/area and their contract will be up for bid by other companies.

Also a clause in the employees contract with the company allowed the company to take every employee who is striking and move them from full time employment to part time. They are hiring medics and EMTs to perminatly fill all the open full time shifts.
 
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