FP-C without a class...

FLMedic311

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can you do it? What resources did you use?


(As an aside, FIRST POST!)

I would never say that it cannot be done, I definitely could not have. I needed to have some hands on to help me with bringing it all together. I would recommend University of Florida CCP course. I you can't do the 3 month live course they have an online course and then you only have to show up for I think it was 5 days of practical. But you get your hands on every piece of equipment you can imagine!
 

SandpitMedic

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I watched the ResQ shop videos for about two weeks and used The Comprehensive Study Guide.
Passed first try at the FP-C; no prior CCT experience, no practice tests, no nonsense.

If you want it bad enough you can do it. Additionally, anyone can pass a test. That does not necessarily mean you'll be cut out for flight medicine.
 

Carlos Danger

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Additionally, anyone can pass a test. That does not necessarily mean you'll be cut out for flight medicine.

And, with all due respect for current and would- be FP-C's, this is exactly why the credential carries so little weight with me.

There are just too many people who have it these days but have never proven themselves in the environment. So what, then, does it even mean?
 

VentMonkey

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And, with all due respect for current and would- be FP-C's, this is exactly why the credential carries so little weight with me.

There are just too many people who have it these days but have never proven themselves in the environment. So what, then, does it even mean?
It means you can stand in a long line along with others to make yourself "stick out" to the big players in the HEMS game?

I agree that it carries no weight by itself to have the cert, which is why I got tired of sitting on my hands with it and gladly took a ground job, started learning what it was that was actually applicable about both the certification, and the job itself.

If you are the type as I had mentioned above that just wants it to make yourself competitive and not actually learn what in facr critical care medicine entails, then to me you're of the same vein of the "I'll get my p card so that I can get into 'X' fire department, and only to get into the fire department".
 

Carlos Danger

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It means you can stand in a long line along with others to make yourself "stick out" to the big players in the HEMS game?

I agree that it carries no weight by itself to have the cert, which is why I got tired of sitting on my hands with it and gladly took a ground job, started learning what it was that was actually applicable about both the certification, and the job itself.

If you are the type as I had mentioned above that just wants it to make yourself competitive and not actually learn what in facr critical care medicine entails, then to me you're of the same vein of the "I'll get my p card so that I can get into 'X' fire department, and only to get into the fire department".
I understand that it's become an entry level merit badge for those who want to get into HEMS. I just think that is a shame, since it isn't what the credential was initially intended to be, and since it objectively cheapens the credential. Its rise in popularity also ironically parallels an overall decrease in experience levels needed to get into HEMS.

Again, I don't mean any disrespect to anyone. I know folks work hard for it and are just doing what they need to do to get where they want to be in their career, which God knows I've done plenty of myself. But I was there when the credential was initially developed, and what it looks like today is nothing like what it was intended for.

Remi, CFP# 121 (2002)
 
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VentMonkey

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So then @Remi what is it that's changed from the time you were credentialed, and how would you propose any "would be" flight paramedic, or nurse go about pursuing their goal in a manner that's both earned, and respected in the eyes of the experienced provider in this particular line of work?

I completely understand you weren't knocking anyone's dream, or aspirations for what it's worth, I'm just genuinely curious...for the sake of dialogue.
 

VFlutter

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My company requires an advanced cert within 6 months of hire and are strongly encouraging CFRN/FPC. Also, the only ones they give a stipen for.

In my opinion, get a specifically certification that is relevant to your experience and expertise (I.e. CCRN or CEN) when applying for jobs and then take the CFRN when you are in a flight position.
 

VentMonkey

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My company requires an advanced cert within 6 months of hire and are strongly encouraging CFRN/FPC. Also, the only ones they give a stipen for.

In my opinion, get a specifically certification that is relevant to your experience and expertise (I.e. CCRN or CEN) when applying for jobs and then take the CFRN when you are in a flight position.
Yes, but what say you about paramedics that want to pursue a career in flight medicine?

Should they wait to get hired to get their specialty cert, arguably making it easier for them to get glossed over in the hiring process?

What would be the "ideal" amount of experience for a paramedic aside from "3 years of 911 experience"? Should there be aside from that and perhaps a bachelors in a related field?

I guess my point is it's arguably more difficult for paramedics who have been paramedics to stick out when there are folks willing to take pay cuts who are well experienced RN/ paramedics with vast amounts of time on be it street, ED, ICU or any combination of the three.

I get it is for good reasons, and in fact part of the draw for me to pursue this aspect of EMS, and get my FP-C was how it exposed me to higher than average standards beyond what I had learned in paramedic school. I dig being around lots of smart folks, and picking their brains. I like that I am now held to that same standard even if at times I still very much feel out of my comfort zone.

By no means do I take away from these folks hard earned work, time, and education, I'm simply pointing out the reality of what it is for the "average paramedic", and one of the reasons perhaps so many almost have to pursue a seemingly watered down certification.

Just some food for thought...
 

SandpitMedic

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There are still only under 6000 people that are FP-C holders worldwide; it is not just a US certification. That is far less than the number of CCT credentials... In the US alone. The number of ALS prehospital providers in the US (Nationally Registered or State Certified) and world wide is also a pretty large number. (Especially since most US fire departments require ALS credentials to be a firefighter, the number has probably doubled or tripled what would have been its normal evolution).

So in actuality, it is still a very small percentage of providers that hold the FP-C. Atop that, not every flight medic even has it. I'd guess no more than 3-5% worldwide. Purely an estimate.

My point is that since Remi is one of the originals he would know best what it was intended to be (I agree it should not be another dumb badge card). However, with the evolution of HEMS and Air Medical Services being what it is today... More or less ubiquitous, how would you have liked to see the FP-C evolve with the industry? We've come along way from #121. I am in the 5000s. It is still a challenging test, a weeder test for sure, but again with enough preparation anyone can pass. Even a day one paramedic. It is certainly now widely considered "a badge of honor" among our EMS colleagues, but that is not why I obtained it.
 

SandpitMedic

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Actually it appears there are less CCEMPT credentials issued by the board.
 

VentMonkey

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I will be the first to admit I took it on a whim and at the time that I did, I had all but given up being a flight paramedic.

I was pretty tired of "911" and really wanted to know what the hoopla was. I agree it is something anyone can pass and take. That being said regardless of whether you do "free" online tutorials, prep courses, or both, you have to study your *** off to take it and be successful.

It definitely isn't for someone to take lightly particularly for those with no firsthand critical care experience.

The common ground to me is having the self motivation to prepare for success with it regardless of your previous experience, what you choose to do after you pass it is up to you.

What separates those deserving of calling themselves flight paramedics in my opinion is what you do with the certification and it's knowledge that (if you so choose) it can impart.

I'm not a fan of it being seen as a "badge of honor" by others in EMS because, to me it does nothing but make it yet another merit badge in the eyes of many, perhaps not all.

I am glad it seems to at least set some form of standardization in regards to critical care paramedicine.
 

SandpitMedic

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Right, it is a critical care certification.
 

VentMonkey

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Right, it is a critical care certification.
And that there is something I feel should be emphasized to any "would be" flight paramedic.

We are but one arm of critical care prehospital care, as is ground, and FW ops.
 

Carlos Danger

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So then @Remi what is it that's changed from the time you were credentialed, and how would you propose any "would be" flight paramedic, or nurse go about pursuing their goal in a manner that's both earned, and respected in the eyes of the experienced provider in this particular line of work?

I completely understand you weren't knocking anyone's dream, or aspirations for what it's worth, I'm just genuinely curious...for the sake of dialogue.

What changed was that originally, only experienced flight paramedics took the exam. So if someone had "FP-C" behind their name, you knew they were the real deal. As soon as you started seeing "certified flight paramedics" who actually weren't flight paramedics at all however, the credential became less meaningful because then it told you nothing about the person's background.

It isn't just the FP-C; the same exact thing is true of most of these alphabet soup exams. CEN, CFRN, same exact thing. These boards are certifying people in fields that they don't have any practical experience or even any formal training in. The only one I can think of off the top of my dead that isn't like that is the CCRN, which does require both experience and structured training in critical care and consequently, I think it is the most respected and rewarded of all these certifications.

When a brand new paramedic with no critical care training or experience can possess the same credential as someone who has been doing HEMS and CCT for years and practicing at a very high level, then what does that credential tell you about the folks who hold it? Nothing at all, beyond the fact that they both passed the same 1.5 hour long written exam. That's it.

I understand that it's basically become the entry-level credential for paramedics who want to get into CCT and HEMS, or is at least heading that way. I also understand that paramedics who want to advance and set themselves apart have few other options. So I certainly get why people with no HEMS experience are taking the exam, and I don't hold it against anyone. I just think it would carry much more weight if there were a little more to earning the credential.
 

VentMonkey

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What changed was that originally, only experienced flight paramedics took the exam. So if someone had "FP-C" behind their name, you knew they were the real deal. As soon as you started seeing "certified flight paramedics" who actually weren't flight paramedics at all however, the credential became less meaningful because then it told you nothing about the person's background.

It isn't just the FP-C; the same exact thing is true of most of these alphabet soup exams. CEN, CFRN, same exact thing. These boards are certifying people in fields that they don't have any practical experience or even any formal training in. The only one I can think of off the top of my dead that isn't like that is the CCRN, which does require both experience and structured training in critical care and consequently, I think it is the most respected and rewarded of all these certifications.

When a brand new paramedic with no critical care training or experience can possess the same credential as someone who has been doing HEMS and CCT for years and practicing at a very high level, then what does that credential tell you about the folks who hold it? Nothing at all, beyond the fact that they both passed the same 1.5 hour long written exam. That's it.

I understand that it's basically become the entry-level credential for paramedics who want to get into CCT and HEMS, or is at least heading that way. I also understand that paramedics who want to advance and set themselves apart have few other options. So I certainly get why people with no HEMS experience are taking the exam, and I don't hold it against anyone. I just think it would carry much more weight if there were a little more to earning the credential.
I can't really argue one bit, and pretty much agree. I am not totally convinced that the IBSC and CAMTS don't have their own agenda.

I can agree that it is kind of rubbish when a 15 year paramedic and a 1 year paramedic can take the same exam with the same results; I get how it devalues such a certification process, I personally, just want to learn as much as I can from what's been layed out in front of me now...before I can no longer do this except for from behind a desk.
 

Carlos Danger

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I personally, just want to learn as much as I can from what's been layed out in front of me now...before I can no longer do this except for from behind a desk.

And I think that's the case for pretty much everyone who takes it. It's smart, driven people who are taking this exam just because they want to learn and advance themselves. That's what keeps it meaning something.
 

VFlutter

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It isn't just the FP-C; the same exact thing is true of most of these alphabet soup exams. CEN, CFRN, same exact thing. These boards are certifying people in fields that they don't have any practical experience or even any formal training in. The only one I can think of off the top of my dead that isn't like that is the CCRN, which does require both experience and structured training in critical care and consequently, I think it is the most respected and rewarded of all these certifications.

I agree, I feel like the CCRN still retains some merit since ideally a percentage of applicants are vetted and 1750hrs of critical care experience is required. I always found it odd you can take the CEN with no ER experience and the CFRN with no flight. I wish CFRN was like CMC (Cardiac Medicine Certifed) certification. You are required to obtain your CCRN first and then take a sub-specialty exam (with separate requirements). But I am a certification junkie - PCCN, CCRN-CMC
 

CANMAN

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What changed was that originally, only experienced flight paramedics took the exam. So if someone had "FP-C" behind their name, you knew they were the real deal. As soon as you started seeing "certified flight paramedics" who actually weren't flight paramedics at all however, the credential became less meaningful because then it told you nothing about the person's background.

It isn't just the FP-C; the same exact thing is true of most of these alphabet soup exams. CEN, CFRN, same exact thing. These boards are certifying people in fields that they don't have any practical experience or even any formal training in. The only one I can think of off the top of my dead that isn't like that is the CCRN, which does require both experience and structured training in critical care and consequently, I think it is the most respected and rewarded of all these certifications.

When a brand new paramedic with no critical care training or experience can possess the same credential as someone who has been doing HEMS and CCT for years and practicing at a very high level, then what does that credential tell you about the folks who hold it? Nothing at all, beyond the fact that they both passed the same 1.5 hour long written exam. That's it.

I understand that it's basically become the entry-level credential for paramedics who want to get into CCT and HEMS, or is at least heading that way. I also understand that paramedics who want to advance and set themselves apart have few other options. So I certainly get why people with no HEMS experience are taking the exam, and I don't hold it against anyone. I just think it would carry much more weight if there were a little more to earning the credential.

Totally agree, and if my employer allowed it I would drop my FP-C because of this. I dropped my CCEMT-P for the same reasons. I have gotten to the point where the only creds I carry are what my employer requires and reimburses for.
 

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