Firefighter who flunked physical injured 10 days into job

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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Lol... Another unfit diversity hire... Don't let that snowflake flunk...

You'd think this would be a lesson learned that reality is not as conforming to diversity as human emotion is. Sadly, it will be swept under the rug and forgotten, for it does not fit the narrative.
 

triemal04

Forum Deputy Chief
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Hmmm, let's see...someone who never should have been hired in the first place...took 3 tries to make it through the fire academy and was allowed to return after the first 2 failures...never successfully completed all the lowered physical requirements and now Since she was injured on duty, she is eligible for a disability pension that would pay three-quarters of her annual salary, tax-free, if deemed unfit to return. I wonder...how could this situation have been avoided?

Maybe all the SJW's out there who are screaming and crying about diversity in the workplace should start slow, with non-essential jobs before moving onto more important, essential things.

I say the NFL is dominated by black and white men and needs to be diversified with women, Asian's and Hispanic's. Much better place to start than police, fire, EMS, the military, medical jobs, teachers...you know...all those "important" ones... And since physical and mental ability is just another lie that has been sowed by the oppressive, privileged white men to keep the masses down, why shouldn't things start there? Women, Asian's and Hispanic's would do great playing pro football.

Who's with me?
 

escapedcaliFF

Forum Lieutenant
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Yep politcial correct run rampit. Watch shell collect disability for the rest of her life cause she was hurt on the job. If they had any common sense if she dose come back after healing being shes a probie fire her.
 

OnceAnEMT

Forum Asst. Chief
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A couple scary quotes in that article. First off, passed over in 1999 and 2000? First off I'm just impressed those records were maintained with their massive volumes, but secondly that is quite some time ago. Are other departments doing this retroactive Affirmative Action stuff? I know plenty of departments who are presently employing under-the-table quotas, but I haven't heard of anyone giving preference for minorities denied years prior, let alone 15 years. AND she's 40. Not to knock down 40 year olds, but does the department not have a cadet age restriction?
 

triemal04

Forum Deputy Chief
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A couple scary quotes in that article. First off, passed over in 1999 and 2000? First off I'm just impressed those records were maintained with their massive volumes, but secondly that is quite some time ago. Are other departments doing this retroactive Affirmative Action stuff? I know plenty of departments who are presently employing under-the-table quotas, but I haven't heard of anyone giving preference for minorities denied years prior, let alone 15 years. AND she's 40. Not to knock down 40 year olds, but does the department not have a cadet age restriction?
Yes, Chicago FD also had to do the same thing a couple years ago. I don't know if there have been any others but I wouldn't be shocked, or surprised if that doesn't happen more often now (when old hiring lists are available anyway).

Reality means nothing when "equality" is the concern.
 

johnrsemt

Forum Deputy Chief
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It is going to get worse; more and more people that are not qualified to be FF (or paramedics) are going to get themselves and others hurt or killed
 

CALEMT

The Other Guy/ Paramaybe?
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Ok so I'm going to go there. DISCLAIMER as a firefighter (seasonal) I have worked with plenty of women who could kick my *** any day of the week and would exceed physical fitness standards.

Had this been a male who failed 3 times, they would have probably failed him out of the academy. Just going out on a limb for a wild guess that that would happen, and they say females don't get same opportunities as males. How many times does it take to pass a physical fitness test? The standard should be only 1 time, not 3 FAILS. If I was a firefighter assigned on the same engine as her I would not at all feel comfortable or trust her to pull me out of a building. Its not because she's a woman, its because she can't pass the same standards that I would've been held to. She got injured during a daily engine checkout. Something I did for 7 months straight and I never got injured. If she injures herself doing something as simple as checking a engine then how the hell will she be able to preform on a fire? traffic collision? a simple lift assist?

If you can't meet the standards (physical or academic) then you're a danger not only to yourself, but your coworkers, and the people you're there to protect. Im glad this happened during a routine engine checkout and not on a fire. We can only assume the "what if" situation, but what if it were a fire and she injured herself. Who would've been seriously injured or died? A fellow firefighter? A innocent civilian? Moral of this rant: If you can't preform to the set minimum standards then you have NO business being on a fire apparatus.
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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I have less issue with how she got injured. Crap happens, people slip, stuff like that. But how could anyone (of any gender or other demographic) be allowed on the line after failing to pass a fitness test. It's poor practice and you'd think would open the department up to enormous liability.
 

AtlasFlyer

Forum Captain
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Yeah, standards are standards and they should apply across the board. Being a 40 year old female, I think I should be given the same opportunity to *try*, and be considered for the job. However, regardless of age or gender if I can't pass the physical requirements I can't pass the physical requirements and should be removed from the program. That, to me, is "equality", apply the same standards to everyone. Everyone isn't going to pass, that's just the way it is. Give someone the chance to meet the standards, if they do, great, if they don't, out.
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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First off, like many people have said (esp in public safety), if you can't do the job, you shouldn't have the job. I do think it was a shame that she was allowed to graduate and be assigned to an engine without being able to pass the tests. As a firefighter, I I don't care about what race/gender/age etc you are, if you can do the job, then let's go; if not, then step aside and let someone who can do the job do it.

HOWEVER, she got hurt on the job, which can happen to any one. And she didn't get a strain or pulled muscle, she actually broke a bone in her foot (confirmed by X-rays), which could happen to anyone. I don't think it has anything to do with her ability to pass the academy, as I know 10 and 20 year veterans who hurt themselves while at work.

People do get hurt in this field, both in training/academy and in emergencies. Once they heal, they are expected to be back on the job. But the end result is, if you can't do the job, you shouldn't hold the job, regardless of your age, gender, or ethnicity.
 

VCEMT

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Where I used to work, they've been hiring females like crazy. If they aren't on their knees or back with male co-workers, they are on light duty due to injuries. That or crashing rigs. Just adding a fact. I've worked with a few awesome female medics and EMTs and too many terrible male medics and EMTs.
 

DesertMedic66

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Where I used work, they've been hiring females like crazy. If they aren't on their knees or back with male co-workers, they are on light duty due to injuries. That or crashing rigs. Just adding a fact. I've worked with a few awesome female medics and EMTs and too many terrible male medics and EMTs.
And where is this you used to work? I may need to change companies...
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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The CPAT as it is today is a watered down physical test that was made a standard because most people could pass it regardless of physical ability, so more people could be included if you know what I mean.

In the fire academy, the physical stuff goes well beyond CPAT level exertion, so the females that come out are in decent condition. In my personal opinion, where you run into trouble is when the females get into their mid 40's and beyond. We have an annual test called the Work Performance Evaluation that you need to pass in order to keep working in the field. It's basically a beefed up CPAT on air. Here it is:


The limit is 10:47. The bulls knock it out in 4:00 - 5:30. Guys in their 40's do it in 6:30-7:30, the old guys do it in 8 or 9 minutes, although some of them look half-dead when they're finished.. Not that it hasn't been done, but I haven't seen a female get sub 6 mins. The younger ones seem to come in at 8 mins. give or take, and of all of the failures, it's almost always older women, or skinny ones that just do bodyweight stuff and running for PT, and don't do anything to maintain or increase strength. I've seen some older females quit halfway through and rip off the mask, and stop several times in each station. If you walk the thing slowly and methodically, you'll come in at around 7:30. I would be too bored trying to slow it up to 9 mins. or so.

In my opinion, to work in fire suppression, male or female, the bare minimum physical standard should be a 135# back squat x 10 or 135# front squat x 5, 205# deadlift x 5, ground to overhead 135# x 1, 2000m row in 10 minutes. Anything less and you're a liability. For EMS, I would say 95# squat x 10, 155# DL x 5, ground to OH 95#, and still 2000m row 10 mins. I do the 2000m row in just under 7 mins, so 10 mins. is perfectly reasonable. It's not the weak people that get hurt, it's the stronger people lifting with them that need to compensate, that get the injury.

If you need to routinely call for a lift assist for patients as light as 200# you're doing it wrong (male or female), and need to question if you belong in EMS from a physical standpoint. I don't feel that this is particularly harsh, as any normal person can achieve those above benchmarks if they just put in the damn work. Lift things up, put them down, and do an intense circuit finisher after the session, and every few days run a 5k as fast as possible or do 4-8 500m rower sprints with 1-2 mins. rest between bouts. it's not too complicated. Grab a kettlebell, swing and squat with it a bunch of times. Learn Turkish Get-ups to work what the main lifts miss, so you don't tear something when you lift at an odd angle, like taking some out of a bathtub, between the bed and the wall, or doing the Reeves down a few flights of narrow stairs.
 

johnrsemt

Forum Deputy Chief
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Can't fault her for getting hurt, unless she purposely did something stupid, (or worse did it at home, and covered it up til she got on duty). We have had people step down off a curb to the street and break a bone in their foot. Sometimes it happens, and it hurts.

If she uses it to somehow get long term disability or medically retired from FD then that is another problem. Although most LT disabilities don't start until you have been at the job for 1-3 years.
 

46Young

Level 25 EMS Wizard
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Can't fault her for getting hurt, unless she purposely did something stupid, (or worse did it at home, and covered it up til she got on duty). We have had people step down off a curb to the street and break a bone in their foot. Sometimes it happens, and it hurts.

If she uses it to somehow get long term disability or medically retired from FD then that is another problem. Although most LT disabilities don't start until you have been at the job for 1-3 years.

There are people that go into the office on light duty and never see the field again. Where I work, you have one year to return to full duty after your last surgery, or you're done. There are people that "get hurt," do 11 months on light duty, "get hurt" their first tour back, do 11 months light duty, "get hurt" their first tour back, etc. etc. I've seen it happen with a few different people. It would not be too difficult for this FDNY person to do the same. Return to work, "throw out her back" on an EMS call or picking up hose, something like that. String things along just long enough to qualify for permanent disability, and get paid for life!
 
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