EMT Boot Camp Starts Monday

[daedalus]

This is not a requirement or even the responsibility of Basic. Since the basic can not preform any of these skills, or even true training on ALS skills. If a Basic spikes the wrong bag or an expired bag, it is not the responsibility of that Basic. An I/P needs to verify everything they do. When I was a Basic, I chose to learn ALS assist because it made me feel a bit more useful, instead of sitting in the driver's seat and waiting for the ok to go.



Your comparison about a surgeon with an EMT is not a valid comparison. I agree a 2 week course is not geared properly for retention. But you compared a Surgeon with 4 years education and residency with a Surgeon who had 4 1/2 yrs education only....the difference was the residency.
As you said your card says you have the minimum knowledge required by the state/NR to practice at your level. But residency is necessary. This is where responsibility falls upon the employer of the new EMT-B/I/P to assign them an FTO and encourage them. this is where we all take book knowledge we learned and apply and gain experience. Under supervision as is with the MD in residency. NO...let me repeat NO person new to a level should be allowed to tech alone after immediately getting their new level card. They need supervision and someone to evaluate whether they are merely a good test taker or someone who can truly apply what they have learned.


As someone said...Basics are quite important.

I do actually think the basic/surgeon comparison stands. Many times, EMTs are alone with patients who may be potentially sick, and are the highest "medical provider" in the BLS rig. While CNAs are task oriented and always only doing very simple things under the nursing model (supervised by LVNs and RNs), the EMT may or may not be supervised and is expected to be able to care for any patient at his level. Their education is woefully inadequate for this. Many times, CNAs can even be more educated than EMTs.

 

[Ridryder911]

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120 hours is 120 hours whether we're talking about a 6 month class or a 2 week class.

You are vastly overestimating the amount of out-of-classroom studying that students actually do over the course of the 6 month class. For the most part (at least in my neck of the woods), people are taking the EMT class as vollys and it is being completed simultaneously with college, work, volunteer time etc etc. There are only so many hours in a day.

Again, you fail to recognize adult learners and adult education. Sorry, as you even described there is just so many hours in a day. So which portion do you prefer to have them forget? You are informing me that one is reading 3-5 chapters daily is retaining better or the same as one that has a week to absorb it and then practice each segment in a lab over a week?

Just how many times do these accelerated students get to perform each type of assessment techniques, clinical skills? How many scenarios are placed to make the student think or do they even get a chance to perform under direction and review? Do they even get to run scenarios outdoors or in lab settings to give them unique perspectives or is that the employers responsibility to get poorly prepared medics?

What happens if a few students "doesn't get it"? Is there a time for them to practice in between if so.. how if it is daily class?

How in detail is the didactic material given? Is there any other discussion or hand outs than the usual NHTSA or textbook material?

Sorry, its not the place of the employers or FTO's to train them to be able to provide care at their level. They are supposed to be knowledgeable to sustain upon their own. It is FTO's job is make sure they have a working knowledge of the companies policies and standards of care, to fine tune and to give additional knowledge, not teach them upon how to be an EMT. That is what the course and clinicals are for.

This is why, I am seeing more and more applicants not suited for the position. We test and give applicants critical thinking problems, one has to be able to make logical and sound decisions in a short period of time. As well, be very familiar on how to manage and perform at their level without supervision. Sorry, I am not going to hire you just to teach you to be a Basic EMT or in other words how to do your job. Give additional education and reinforce yes. . Remember, there are a lot of EMT's that can perform and where will that place you?

So let's clarify. Two weeks is enough to retain all that is within the course and then we agree that it is not enough. Then we agree that they should not be the primary care provider and driving is the main emphasis for the EMT level, although we do not require EVO within the course.... yeah, the system is just fine!

Remember, when one takes a short cut; it will be paid for later. Hopefully it will not be the patient.

R/r 911

 

[djmedic913]

An EMT-B is important just as CNAs are important.

I completely agree.

However, 120 hours of training in a few skills with a very limited knowledge base, one should not assume the EMT-B is prepared to fully assess or evaluate a patient. Thus, part of their training should be knowing their limitations. Some still confuse knowing how to do a couple of "skills" that a Paramedic might do, like spiking an IV bag or putting together a laryngoscope, makes them "ALS".

I agree again. that is why I said new EMT-B/I/P need to do some kind of residency. Something more than just clinical time. when they are done with class, they need to prove they have the ability to work at that level to a qualified preceptor/FTO before they can play at that level unsupervised

 

[whatw14578]

i know we had that for both volly EMT and as a New PAramedic. and it really helps to have that so many weeks or so many ALS calls.

 

[HotelCo]

You are vastly overestimating the amount of out-of-classroom studying that students actually do over the course of the 6 month class. For the most part (at least in my neck of the woods), people are taking the EMT class as vollys and it is being completed simultaneously with college, work, volunteer time etc etc. There are only so many hours in a day.

"There are only so many hours in a day." That isn't an acceptable excuse to not study. Cut out some TV, stop hanging around on the internet. You can find time to study.

Just because the students in your EMT class didn't study much outside of the classroom, doesn't mean that every program is the same way.

 

[DHarris52]

Again, you fail to recognize adult learners and adult education. Sorry, as you even described there is just so many hours in a day. So which portion do you prefer to have them forget? You are informing me that one is reading 3-5 chapters daily is retaining better or the same as one that has a week to absorb it and then practice each segment in a lab over a week?

Precisely why the accelerated program is not for everyone.

Everyone learns differently.

Just how many times do these accelerated students get to perform each type of assessment techniques, clinical skills? How many scenarios are placed to make the student think or do they even get a chance to perform under direction and review? Do they even get to run scenarios outdoors or in lab settings to give them unique perspectives or is that the employers responsibility to get poorly prepared medics?

The students in the 2 week class get no less practice time than the students in the 6 months class. Once again, 120 hours is 120 hours no matter how you slice it.

What happens if a few students "doesn't get it"? Is there a time for them to practice in between if so.. how if it is daily class?

Perhaps then those students should reconsider if the accelerated program is for them before continuing.

How in detail is the didactic material given? Is there any other discussion or hand outs than the usual NHTSA or textbook material?

Why would it be any different, material wise, than any other EMT course?

Sorry, its not the place of the employers or FTO's to train them to be able to provide care at their level. They are supposed to be knowledgeable to sustain upon their own. It is FTO's job is make sure they have a working knowledge of the companies policies and standards of care, to fine tune and to give additional knowledge, not teach them upon how to be an EMT. That is what the course and clinicals are for.

Sorry, but I don't want any new EMT out in the field on their own. I really could care less whether they took the 2 week course or 6 month course. EMTs who are fresh out of school should always be paired with an experienced "mentor". As I said, EMT school is only the half of it. Call the other half "on-the-job training".

 

[DHarris52]

"There are only so many hours in a day." That isn't an acceptable excuse to not study. Cut out some TV, stop hanging around on the internet. You can find time to study.

Just because the students in your EMT class didn't study much outside of the classroom, doesn't mean that every program is the same way.

That is an incredibly ignorant statement.

Just because you had ample time to study during your class, doesn't mean every other EMT student had the same luxury.

 

[HotelCo]

That is an incredibly ignorant statement.

Just because you had ample time to study during your class, doesn't mean every other EMT student had the same luxury.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that you have NO time to study, outside of class? You can always find things to cut out, to make way for study time. You may have to make some sacrifices to do it, but the time is there.

 

[djmedic913]

What happens if a few students "doesn't get it"?

Sorry, its not the place of the employers or FTO's to train them to be able to provide care at their level. They are supposed to be knowledgeable to sustain upon their own. It is FTO's job is make sure they have a working knowledge of the companies policies and standards of care, to fine tune and to give additional knowledge, not teach them upon how to be an EMT. That is what the course and clinicals are for.

I agree it is not the job of the FTO to teach the new B/I/P to be just that a B/I/P. But usual the new level needs some guidance and help building some confidence in their new level. You "What happens if a few students "doesn't get it"? ". well, there are some people that no matter hard we try, no matter how much we teach, etc, they will just never get it. Not everyone is cut out for EMS.

I am in agreement that this boot camp is a bad idea, because it does not give the student a chance to let the new info sink in. But how much are you wanting the Basic classes to teach? How much info is too much for the Basic. I take nothing away from basics. where are do we draw line then...or should also basics be taught to the medic level?

 

[whatw14578]

wow all this over a basic class?

 

[TransportJockey]

"There are only so many hours in a day." That isn't an acceptable excuse to not study. Cut out some TV, stop hanging around on the internet. You can find time to study.

Just because the students in your EMT class didn't study much outside of the classroom, doesn't mean that every program is the same way.

+1. If I hadn't made time to study for this paramedic program, I would have washed out long ago. If I hear someone tell me that stupid sentance, I will tell them that they failed themselves

 

[Luno]

Just how many times do these accelerated students get to perform each type of assessment techniques, clinical skills? How many scenarios are placed to make the student think or do they even get a chance to perform under direction and review? Do they even get to run scenarios outdoors or in lab settings to give them unique perspectives or is that the employers responsibility to get poorly prepared medics?

Having FTO'd, in my opinion, all EMTs just out of class are poorly prepared EMTs, whether from 3mo Community College programs, or 2 week "intensive" programs

What happens if a few students "doesn't get it"? Is there a time for them to practice in between if so.. how if it is daily class?

Unfortunately for the student, it's either you get it or you don't in an intensive, if they can't perform the skill, they get dropped, they don't get the extra days to "try again."

How in detail is the didactic material given? Is there any other discussion or hand outs than the usual NHTSA or textbook material?

Having gone through both types of courses, there is really no difference, other than a high washout rate of the "intensive" type course.

Sorry, its not the place of the employers or FTO's to train them to be able to provide care at their level. They are supposed to be knowledgeable to sustain upon their own. It is FTO's job is make sure they have a working knowledge of the companies policies and standards of care, to fine tune and to give additional knowledge, not teach them upon how to be an EMT. That is what the course and clinicals are for.

I'm going to disagree with you here, the EMT is taught a series of guidelines and rules, the practical application has to be learned in the field.

This is why, I am seeing more and more applicants not suited for the position. We test and give applicants critical thinking problems, one has to be able to make logical and sound decisions in a short period of time. As well, be very familiar on how to manage and perform at their level without supervision. Sorry, I am not going to hire you just to teach you to be a Basic EMT or in other words how to do your job. Give additional education and reinforce yes. . Remember, there are a lot of EMT's that can perform and where will that place you?

I have yet to see an EMT just from school who can perform at this level.

So let's clarify. Two weeks is enough to retain all that is within the course and then we agree that it is not enough. Then we agree that they should not be the primary care provider and driving is the main emphasis for the EMT level, although we do not require EVO within the course.... yeah, the system is just fine!

I agree that the system is broken, however the break isn't in the intensive courses, the break is in the lack of adequate standards and preceptorship for the position. I think we can both agree that the issue is that 120hrs isn't enough time.

Remember, when one takes a short cut; it will be paid for later. Hopefully it will not be the patient.

R/r 911

And this I couldn't agree with more...

 

[Shishkabob]

So, how'd the camp go Trevor?

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

It can be done well if you work for it.

My program was 5 days a week and 4 weeks long. If I wasn't sleeping I was ether in class or studying for class. Literally, I had maybe a couple hours a week to myself. Took the test and aced it, was out of there in about 20 minutes, I think I had 60 or 70 questions to work through.

I also knew that that wasn't the end of education. I have been learning still ever since, but the restention is actually pretty good. Since I worked for a private that did morestly IFT, i lost a lot of the trauma stuff quickly, but the medical stayed with me running on resp. arrests, unresponsives, etc. Since I started working for a FD, the trauma stuff has quickly come back after just a couple hours of reading chapter outlines and a few sections here and there. I was very ready for my first shift with the FD a year after I graduated EMS School

It can be done. Is it the best way? probably not since most people won't want to spend 9 hours a day in class and 6 more studying, but that's what worked for me so if you want it badly enough, you can do it.

 

[trevor1189]

Class is going good. It is intense. We have had a few drop out and a bunch that I think won't pass because they don't get it. I think I am doing pretty good and got all positive feedback on my practice practical scenarios yesterday. I have some anxiety about the state tests just because they are tests but I think I will do good.

One question I had is do we find out if we passed when we take the state tests if we passed or are we supposed to wait for the mail? I am just wondering how long it takes to get my actual certificate. I want to start doing some calls once I get it as a second emt so I can get used to being in the field and charting and all that stuff before I am out there by myself. Wish me luck next week, it can't hurt. ;-)

 

[djmedic913]

One question I had is do we find out if we passed when we take the state tests if we passed or are we supposed to wait for the mail? I am just wondering how long it takes to get my actual certificate.

I took my Basic in PA. I did not go to any EMS camp. But after I took my test I needed to wait for the mail. It wasn't too long of a wait.

It may have been mentioned, but I may have missed it...and I'm curious...
1)How old are you?
2)Where in PA is this boot camp?

I want to start doing some calls once I get it as a second emt so I can get used to being in the field and charting and all that stuff before I am out there by myself. Wish me luck next week, it can't hurt. ;-)

Every Service I have ever been involved with will have you ride as a 3rd rider to start. That is including Emmaus Ambulance in PA where I started. They will keep an eye on you to make sure you don't kill anyone, make sure you have a clue, help you where you need it, and get you ready to be in charge.

 

[trevor1189]

I took my Basic in PA. I did not go to any EMS camp. But after I took my test I needed to wait for the mail. It wasn't too long of a wait.

It may have been mentioned, but I may have missed it...and I'm curious...
1)How old are you?
2)Where in PA is this boot camp?



Every Service I have ever been involved with will have you ride as a 3rd rider to start. That is including Emmaus Ambulance in PA where I started. They will keep an eye on you to make sure you don't kill anyone, make sure you have a clue, help you where you need it, and get you ready to be in charge.

I am 19 years old and the class is in danville a run thru sehsc.

 

[djmedic913]

I am 19 years old and the class is in danville a run thru sehsc.

o...ok...I took my Basic in Allentown at LCCC.

 

[Sail195]

In MA they don't require clinical time/Ride time but the dept I am going to volly for has been letting me ride im averaging a 12hr shift a week for the last 2 months (I had a month and a half wait between my class ending and my state practical which was last Sunday).... I want to do medic and I have no doubt that I would make it thought the class if I started in the fall ( I already have a BS in Phys ed with a concentration in coaching so have had a ton of Athletic training classes and Physiology of exerciser ect...) but I feel that I will be doing an injustice too myself.... From all I can see so far is that experience is everything in this field and we have this medic where I volly that went emt right to medic didn't work a day in the field till she had her medic and no one can stand her because she is very arrogant and thinks she knows it all and talks down to all the basics and intermediates that have been working in the feild for 10-15 + years its pretty annoying

Any way I plan on waiting at least a year, which was a hard decsion for me because i am very impatient and just want to get it done now! I mean i just did 4 and 1/2 years of college, 4 months of basic school whats another year lol

 

[EMTinNEPA]

I am 19 years old and the class is in danville a run thru sehsc.

Hey, not too far from my neck of the woods (Berwick-Bloomsburg micropolitan area).