Election 2008

ffemt8978

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Okay, we all know that we have a presidential election coming up this year.

This thread is the only place where we can discuss the candidates and how their platforms affect EMS.

THIS IS NOT MEANT AS A GENERAL DISCUSSION OF THE CANDIDATES, OR POLITICS IN GENERAL.

Please keep the discussion on topic as it pertains to EMS. If this gets out of hand, or it goes beyond it's scope, this thread will be removed.

So here are the rules for this thread.
1) BE POLITE
2) Give reasons why you think one candidate may be better than the other.
3) BE POLITE
4) Provide sources/references if possible
5) BE POLITE
6) Keep it confined to EMS related topics.
7) Most importantly, BE POLITE.
 
im confused. do we have to be polite?
 
The political canidates have not addressed EMS. It really isn't a camapign promise so.

to hell or NJ for all the people who disagree with my position! Which ever is worse.
 
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Yeah...I'm pretty sure (and by that, I mean absolutely positive) EMS doesn't even make the list of things to think about during an election.

Afterall, there are much more important issues to put in the front of an election that have a huge impact on everyone's life, like homosexual marriage, abortion, and evolution vs creationism.


Double posting due to edit limit:

That's just the equivalent of me saying, "teachers are great people who do a great thing and should have all the tools they need to do their job." It's a flattering statement. It might pick up votes of some teachers. It promises nothing.
 
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Yeah...I'm pretty sure (and by that, I mean absolutely positive) EMS doesn't even make the list of things to think about during an election.

Afterall, there are much more important issues to put in the front of an election that have a huge impact on everyone's life, like homosexual marriage, abortion, and evolution vs creationism.



Double posting due to edit limit:

That's just the equivalent of me saying, "teachers are great people who do a great thing and should have all the tools they need to do their job." It's a flattering statement. It might pick up votes of some teachers. It promises nothing.

Until one of them sufferes a massive heart attack and the first responders are not equiped to save him=D
 
The political canidates have not addressed EMS. It really isn't a camapign promise so.

to hell or NJ for all the people who disagree with my position! Which ever is worse.

Why thank you, like we need more people especially those who disagree with you. Then again, with all those smart people who disagree with you, our state IQ would go up dramatically.

FFEMT- What is this word po-lite that you say, i've never heard of it.
 
Why thank you, like we need more people especially those who disagree with you. Then again, with all those smart people who disagree with you, our state IQ would go up dramatically. .

lol

I just got done watching the Bob Saget roast. Its too bad that its too graphic to do a similiar thread here.
 
My money is on McCain, being 500 years old.....:P
You know that when McCain gets elected... there will be TWO military guys with him carrying briefcases... one will be carrying the "football"... and the other will be from the Medical Reserve Corps (or similar) and carrying an AED in their briefcase.

:)
 
Unfortunately most Americans really do not investigate the background or even really what their party affiliation platforms are. Rather usually voting per image, swathe sound bites, or heritage (my parents voted for...).

I was discussing this with my sister (whom is exactly opposite in political views). For example out of millions and millions of qualified persons that actually have education, diverse experience in economics, diplomacy skills; that it actually either came down to a father & son or nearly a husband and wife?... Again, out of the millions, this is what our choices were at one time? ...

Even though the Presidency is really more a figure head bureaucratic position, one would think we would want to place our best image and product in such position, which none of the current candidates possess.

It appears that one candidate is telling everyone what they want to hear and became idolized more on a image than the substance and the other is already making deals to maintain status quo. The Vice Presidency which is usually not really considered important until they become the President (yes, I remember Johnson, Ford) is as well confusing. Kinda strange, one presidential candidate has little experience or qualifications for the job, where as his VP does. The other candidate has the qualifications where as their VP does not.

I do not vote straight ticket. I vote for the individual but as well, I investigate (or attempt to) how many deals with the devil has occurred. How loyal to the parties stand they are, or if they are willing to "go on their own"? What type of cabinet will probably be put in placed and Supreme Court Justices will be replaced by. I realize that there is very little on a day by day that a President can do. That those that expect health care, gas prices, alternative fuel, global warming, changes to occur within the President's term (even if it is dual) is foolish. No Presidential administration can make such changes only lip service. That any effect that occurs takes the minimal or even > 4-8 years after they left the office.

Vote.. but be wise. Remember, they are submitting an application for a very important job. Review, and attempt to choose the best applicant.

R/r 911
 
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Okay. I for one have not missed the point of this thread. Let's start with socialized medicine... while I very much disagree with taking any industry off the free-market (and subsequently run by an inefficient government) there may be some shred of good that can be found within a nationalized health program for EMS. Take from this article what you will, don't argue with me, I didn't write it.

Insights from Across the Big Pond:
http://www.emsnetwork.org/artman2/publish/article_33072.shtml

Yes, McCain will be the oldest president (72), if elected.

Now, I'm a libertarian, I believe government should be tiny and taxes should be tiny (among other things), so you can see my obvious ideological clash with Obama, however, he gets my vote in November because U.S. troop withdrawal is long overdue.
 
You know that when McCain gets elected... there will be TWO military guys with him carrying briefcases... one will be carrying the "football"... and the other will be from the Medical Reserve Corps (or similar) and carrying an AED in their briefcase.

:)

Cool! I knew some (if not all) had some sort of medical training. Actually, I think people who have gone thru the medic program here have been "victims" for training at some presidential site where the secret services does disaster training. Not often though.

BUT BACK TO THE THREAD :)
 
one would think we would want to place our best image and product in such position, which none of the current candidates possess.

Couldn't disagree more. After 8 years of a president that isolated - and quite honestly, villanized - America, I would consider the candidate that can get citizens in both America and other countries around the world waving American flags again the best image. It's been a long time. Instead of voting on who is more handsome or a better speaker (although, those just happen to be two wins for the candidate I support), I support the candidate that is going to restore a sense of dignity again.

As for the specific issues, it's just as simple. I'm supporting the candidate that is willing to look into ways of helping those people who are in the struggling middle class; those that work as hard as they can and as hard as they can simply isn't good enough. For instance, specific to EMS, I'm choosing the candidate that, like me, is not content with elderly men and women bleeding to death, refusing medical care because "Who is going to pay for it? I don't have insurance." Who has heard that one before? It's time we don't hear that anymore. Call me a communist, but I believe the government DOES need to step in and make sure EVERYONE can call an ambulance and receive proper care when they are having a true medical emergency.
 
I'm going to try to remain neutral on this one, but I'm absolutely shocked by McCain's choice for Vice President. I really don't think you can find a more underqualified individual. At least she's female... and conservative?
 
For instance, specific to EMS, I'm choosing the candidate that, like me, is not content with elderly men and women bleeding to death, refusing medical care because "Who is going to pay for it? I don't have insurance." Who has heard that one before? It's time we don't hear that anymore. Call me a communist, but I believe the government DOES need to step in and make sure EVERYONE can call an ambulance and receive proper care when they are having a true medical emergency.

I've never heard that...doubt I ever will....and many of the people I bring are only going to have half their bill paid and that half will be coming out of my taxes (cruelly ironic I've always thought....my taxes go to pay me...if only I were on welfare)

Every hospital ED I've ever been in has a huge sign saying you will not be denied emergency care based on your ability to pay. Ambulances don't have the sign, but operate the same way be they private or town/county/state run.

Nice try at the emotional heart-strings, but sorry, there aren't old ladies running down the street spurting blood everywhere because the ambulance or hospital won't treat them.




"I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. "
 
I've never heard that...doubt I ever will....and many of the people I bring are only going to have half their bill paid and that half will be coming out of my taxes (cruelly ironic I've always thought....my taxes go to pay me...if only I were on welfare)

Every hospital ED I've ever been in has a huge sign saying you will not be denied emergency care based on your ability to pay. Ambulances don't have the sign, but operate the same way be they private or town/county/state run.

Nice try at the emotional heart-strings, but sorry, there aren't old ladies running down the street spurting blood everywhere because the ambulance or hospital won't treat them.

I'm afraid there are. And anyone who has been a Paramedic or an EMT for a decent amount of time in the parts of America that have absolutely been annihilated by the last few years (like Michigan) has heard that line, and seen those people.

For instance, just last night. Called to an elderly man who tripped, fell in his house, cut his head on a door hinge. We got there, and he was sitting in the bathroom, drenched in blood. He was trying to clean it up, but his face was covered, and he was still actively bleeding. And as we were in there, asking him questions, examining the injury, and trying to help him clean it, he said that exact line. He was a veteran of many years, and did not have any health insurance. We tried to tell him the same thing you just said, although everyone knew deep down that there's still a hefty cost. You can get away with not paying for an ambulance ride, because they wont come after you, but a hospital will. You always have to pay something. And there have been many, many cases where hospitals have given purposely poor care to individuals without insurance. It's just reality. Anyway, we eventually got the man to agree to go to the VA. The catch? We can't take him. So we had to go through an entire process of calling relatives in an attempt to find someone who would take him to the VA. We eventually did. Unfortunately, he's still going to get a bill for the bandages and dressing used to stop the bleeding.

Point is, people in this country shouldn't even have to THINK about the idea that they don't have insurance/what are they going to do? It shouldn't even come up. Why? Because free health care should be a right to every citizen of this country.

I am never going to support someone who believes everyone can fend for themselves. Those people are so detached from 99% of Americans that they're a danger. I am not in the wealthiest 1%, and as such, I have to support a candidate that realizes most Americans are struggling right now and need help from the government.
 
Why couldn't you take him to the VA? Unless it's a great distance away, you should be able to take him anywhere. I'm curious about this both for the sake of the argument, but also professionally. We have no such restrictions where I work.

Why shouldn't he get a bill for the bandages? Bandages aren't free...neither is the cost to send the ambulance, and pay you for your time.

Did you clock in for the time you spent with the man? If you feel so greatly for the guy, are you willing to apply the salary you receive for the hour or so you spent on the guy towards his medical bills....or do you expect to be paid? Or maybe its the responsibility of some other rich guy who has more money than you think he deserves to pay this guys medical bills.

Lets take it out of the emergency context. What if it turns out needs a hugely expensive procedure which only has a 20% chance of curing him. Should we (me, you, people who aren't responsible for his situation, but have worked hard enough to have some money in the bank) have to pay for that?


What would you say if you found out that he was born into a rich family, inherited a few million dollars, but spent it all partying and buying expensive houses and cars when he was young....and never had the foresight to set up a retirement fund or buy health insurance? I think I've heard that the majority of people who win the lottery end up bankrupt.....
 
The political canidates have not addressed EMS. It really isn't a camapign promise so.

to hell or NJ for all the people who disagree with my position! Which ever is worse.

NJ cant hold a candle to The SPRMA (Social Peoples Republic of MA)!!:wacko:

oh btw,:

Ah ain't never heered of this hear wurd puh-lite. 's it impoortint? :)
 
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