Election 2008

Jeeze people, quit calling it Communism. It's socialism.

Mmiz, you're correct. She's the most under qualified VP choice in our nation's history. It's a great risk. She's really not ready for the national spotlight (mark my words, you will see some major mis-speeks... and I can't wait for the VP debate!). She brings an entire 2 electoral votes with her from Alaska, and the McCain campaign is mistaken if they think women will vote for any candidate with the same internal plumbing as them, borderline insulting.

However, she's a fresh face and let's face it, some people vote based on sex appeal. It definitely wasn't the "safe choice" but Republican strategists are not idiots by any stretch of the imagination... the race just got tighter folks.
 
This isn't looking good for Palin, a woman's running as a conservative. She just admitted her 17 year old daughter is five months pregnant, she reportedly once was part of the Alaskan Independence Party, that wanted to secede from the Union, and she supported what could have been the nation's personification of pork barrel spending, "The Bridge to Nowhere." I'm not attacking McCain, but I'm absolutely bewildered by his choice for VP.
 
jrm818 said:
Why couldn't you take him to the VA? Unless it's a great distance away, you should be able to take him anywhere. I'm curious about this both for the sake of the argument, but also professionally. We have no such restrictions where I work.

Why shouldn't he get a bill for the bandages? Bandages aren't free...neither is the cost to send the ambulance, and pay you for your time.

Did you clock in for the time you spent with the man? If you feel so greatly for the guy, are you willing to apply the salary you receive for the hour or so you spent on the guy towards his medical bills....or do you expect to be paid? Or maybe its the responsibility of some other rich guy who has more money than you think he deserves to pay this guys medical bills.

Lets take it out of the emergency context. What if it turns out needs a hugely expensive procedure which only has a 20% chance of curing him. Should we (me, you, people who aren't responsible for his situation, but have worked hard enough to have some money in the bank) have to pay for that?


What would you say if you found out that he was born into a rich family, inherited a few million dollars, but spent it all partying and buying expensive houses and cars when he was young....and never had the foresight to set up a retirement fund or buy health insurance? I think I've heard that the majority of people who win the lottery end up bankrupt.....
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First of all, we can not take a patient to the VA, because our service (and most in the area), do not recognize the VA as an appropriate medical facility. We can only pass care onto a facility that can offer care equal to or greater than the level of the providers previously. It's just a policy.

Second, I am willing - maybe because I'm not selfish, and because I want to see the people around me well off - to give up to 10% of my total paycheck every week if it meant that anyone could get any kind of medical care free of cost at any time. Not only would it be beneficial when I need care, but I will feel that the money is well spent in actively saving and improving lives of people around me.

I am pro improving the lives of the people I interact with daily. That's my stance.
 
I believe McCain's forethought of his vice presidential candidate was extremely brilliant. The announcement took the press off the convention as well as she has not "checkered past" to contend with at this time.

Far as no experience, she has as much if not more than Obama. She was a CEO and in charge of foreign relations of such as well as a Governor that has a high trade and stakes in energy as well as conservation issues. Obama has been a Senator less than one full term and previously was an attorney for a Drug company.

Either one cannot fight each other without pointing at themselves first.

In regards to image to other countries, it is a shame we don't have a Harry S. Truman type. The basically to HE*l with everyone else, cut of their money and their hearts will soon follow. I do wish we had more gonads, if they want funding then they have to earn it.

In regards to health care, someone has to pay for it. Albeit the patient or the tax payers. You decide. You want to pay for insurance premiums or you want to pay the additional funding for government health care? What man do not realize is that the number of babay boomers outweight the working level by three fold. There is no way, at this current rate it is feasable to pay through tax services.

R/r 911
 
Ridryder911 said:
I believe McCain's forethought of his vice presidential candidate was extremely brilliant. The announcement took the press off the convention as well as she has not "checkered past" to contend with at this time.

Far as no experience, she has as much if not more than Obama. She was a CEO and in charge of foreign relations of such as well as a Governor that has a high trade and stakes in energy as well as conservation issues. Obama has been a Senator less than one full term and previously was an attorney for a Drug company.

Either one cannot fight each other without pointing at themselves first.

In regards to image to other countries, it is a shame we don't have a Harry S. Truman type. The basically to HE*l with everyone else, cut of their money and their hearts will soon follow. I do wish we had more gonads, if they want funding then they have to earn it.

In regards to health care, someone has to pay for it. Albeit the patient or the tax payers. You decide. You want to pay for insurance premiums or you want to pay the additional funding for government health care? What man do not realize is that the number of babay boomers outweight the working level by three fold. There is no way, at this current rate it is feasable to pay through tax services.

R/r 911
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As always, you seem to cut right to the heart of the matter.
 
Sorry about the typos.. was working and attempting to do the schedule at the same time does not work!...

R/r 911
 
I agree that the current system is broken, but don't you believe that everyone should have access to affordable healthcare?
 
No, that type of entitlement is only reserved for "rights".

Obama (and his supporters) declare healthcare a right because it is a human necessity. But there is a huge problem with using this type of logic to justify government's role in providing services. If the degree of necessity is the criteria for converting a private service into a public entitlement, then universal food, clothing, water, shelter, transportation, etc. should also be on the agenda.
 
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What's not a right? Access to healthcare? You're correct, right now we don't provide affordable access to healthcare. You don't think we should?

I'm not saying taking over healthcare and making it a government function, but you don't think that providing affordable healthcare is essential as a nation?
 
Ridryder911 said:
Sorry about the typos.. was working and attempting to do the schedule at the same time does not work!...

R/r 911
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I think they are a sign of your lack of education.:rolleyes:
 
AlaskaEMT said:
No, that type of entitlement is only reserved for "rights".

Obama (and his supporters) declare healthcare a right because it is a human necessity. But there is a huge problem with using this type of logic to justify government's role in providing services. If the degree of necessity is the criteria for converting a private service into a public entitlement, then universal food, clothing, water, shelter, transportation, etc. should also be on the agenda.
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We have food stamps for food. Other programs for shelter, transportation etc etc. But yes you are right. Healthcare is not a right. Its proximal.B)
 
Even though I work for a government organization, I'm one that firmly believes in the free market and privatization whenever possible. I just believe that every person should be guaranteed certain things in our country. Education and health care are two of those things.
 
MMiz said:
What's not a right? Access to healthcare? You're correct, right now we don't provide affordable access to healthcare. You don't think we should?

I'm not saying taking over healthcare and making it a government function, but you don't think that providing affordable healthcare is essential as a nation?
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It's not a matter of what anyone thinks. I think Mercedes should be more affordable, but that won't happen if they continue to produce high quality vehicles that cost a lot to make.

Our healthcare is expensive because it has a high value. If you want the cost to go down, you either need to reduce the value (worse healthcare) or wealth redistribution (taxes). Neither of which I'm in favor of.

I would recommend "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell to anyone interested in the subject. It's a very easy read and it's not a textbook. I tore through it.
 
So basically what you're asking me is... don't you think we should contribute a little via taxation so everyone can have affordable healthcare? And here we have arrived at the most basic of arguments between Socialists and Libertarians (opposite ends of the spectrum).
 
This is tomorrow's lesson, seriously :) Want to do my warm up? What's a country's responsibility during a natural disaster?
 
It always amazes me that the people supporting a Republican "fend for yourself" system are not those in the wealthy 1% that benefits. It's the middle class that is being shafted by that same system. And I imagine most of us here are in that struggling middle class, since we're medics and EMTs. I mean, come on, few of us are wealthy by any means. And yet you're supporting policies that may hurt the wealthiest people a little to benefit the people on your tier, the middle class? I don't get it.
 
AlaskaEMT said:
It's not a matter of what anyone thinks. I think Mercedes should be more affordable, but that won't happen if they continue to produce high quality vehicles that cost a lot to make.

Our healthcare is expensive because it has a high value. If you want the cost to go down, you either need to reduce the value (worse healthcare) or wealth redistribution (taxes). Neither of which I'm in favor of.

I would recommend "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell to anyone interested in the subject. It's a very easy read and it's not a textbook. I tore through it.
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There are a lot of reasons our healthcare is expensive, but I'm not entirely sure about the high value part unless you are referring to the supply/demand aspect of it. Yes, we do have a lot of innovative and world class medicine in this country, but we by no means have a lock on it. To me, the biggest reason our healthcare is so expensive is that there are so many fingers in the pie, so to speak. This is completely setting aside the malpractice and tort reform aspects of this for the moment.

It's easy to say that we should be entitled to something as a fundamental right. Arguements could be made that almost everything "should" be provided to us. A car - we need that to get to work, take our kids to their schools, and to get food. Gas - need that to make the car do what it's supposed to. Phone - need to be able to summon free healthcare, fire and law when necessary. And the list could go on.

The crux of the argument is who should pay for it. Why should I pay for somebody else's medical costs, especially if they did something completely idiotic and caused their injury themselves? Why shouldn't I receive healthcare at no cost because I'm injured/sick and can't afford to have insurance or pay the bill myself?

Here's a radical idea...(with a nod to Alaska and Rid). Let's stop sending money overseas and put it to use here. How many billions of dollars do we send to every corner of the world every year in the name of humanitarian aid and what do we get back for it? How much good would that money do here?
 
I think it's incredibly ignorant to have a "**** the rest of the world" attitude. I think it's important to maintain a good image in the world, and be the country that all the others look up to (as has been the case in the past). However, I do strongly agree that:

Here's a radical idea...(with a nod to Alaska and Rid). Let's stop sending money overseas and put it to use here.
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Especially all that money wasted in the recent war. I know it's not necessarily that simple, as it's not real money but loans, however, there is money going out that needs to be spent in this country first. On education, on medical coverage for everyone. America needs to be strong from the inside before it can be strong on the outside, as I hear. I agree.
 
Hastings said:
It always amazes me that the people supporting a Republican "fend for yourself" system are not those in the wealthy 1% that benefits. It's the middle class that is being shafted by that same system. And I imagine most of us here are in that struggling middle class, since we're medics and EMTs. I mean, come on, few of us are wealthy by any means. And yet you're supporting policies that may hurt the wealthiest people a little to benefit the people on your tier, the middle class? I don't get it.
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It's not that...it's because I believe that I'm responsible for taking care of myself, and accepting the consequences of my own actions.

And you may want to rethink your argument about hurting the wealthy only a little to help the majority. That logic has been applied several hundred times to our tax code, with the results that it doesn't end up working like intended.
 
ffemt8978 said:
It's not that...it's because I believe that I'm responsible for taking care of myself, and accepting the consequences of my own actions.
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That's fair. I feel the same about myself. However, I became a paramedic knowing who I'd primarily be working for. I became a paramedic because I believe that no matter what poor decisions people make, or whatever situation they are in, they should always have the help that they need when they need it. Because they're still the people that share this world with me. I believe that often, good people lack the tools they need to succeed. I don't believe the Republican idea that everyone has a chance. Some people aren't born into oil money or big business. Some people work their hardest and just don't make it. And I believe those people need help. I believe everyone CAN have a chance, but it DOES require some intervention from the government and the generosity of the more fortunate people around them. And that is why I support a Democratic government. It's a form of government that wants to develop ways to help the struggling people in this world. And it's why I support universal health care. I'm willing to give part of what I make to ensure that the world, quite simply, is a better place to live for everyone. I'm a hippy.
 
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