Dozens Ignored a Man Dying on a Sidewalk in Queens, NY

[NepoZnati]

Homeless Good Samaritan Left to Die on NYC Street

The homeless man lay face down, unmoving, on the sidewalk outside an apartment building, blood from knife wounds pooling underneath his body... One person passed by in the early morning. Then another, and another. Video footage from a surveillance camera shows at least seven people going by, some turning their heads to look, others stopping to gawk. One even lifted the homeless man's body, exposing what appeared to be blood on the sidewalk underneath him, before walking away.

Read the full story here.



Questions Surround a Delay in Help for a Dying Man

One man bent down to the sidewalk to shake the man, lifting him to reveal a pool of blood before walking away. Two men appeared to have a conversation about the situation, one pausing to take a photo of the body before departing. But the rest merely turned their heads toward the body, revealing some curiosity as they hurried along.

Read the full story here.

 

[NepoZnati]

Video of that incident and crappy people who walk by, posted on NYPost site, here: VIDEO

 

[usafmedic45]

Video of that incident and crappy people who walk by, posted on NYPost site, here: VIDEO

If he's bleeding and I don't have gloves, I'm not getting involved so I can't fault them for not rendering first aid. Now, I would have probably at least notified someone.

That said this is a well-documented phenomenon....people assume someone else is going to call for help or intervene. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

 

[Akulahawk]

I'm with USAF on this one. Without gloves, at the least, I'm not going to directly intervene. I will call for assistance as quickly as I can get to a phone. That being said, I do my research before I travel so that I have the local 7 digit number to the appropriate call centers so that I don't have to mess with calling 911 and getting stuck getting that 911 call routed initially to the wrong call center...

 

[viccitylifeguard]

If he's bleeding and I don't have gloves, I'm not getting involved so I can't fault them for not rendering first aid. Now, I would have probably at least notified someone.

i have to agree completly here my therory is "if its warm wet and not mine i dont touch it" that being said if i had gloves ya i prob would have helped or called for help and waited till it arrived.

 

[usafmedic45]

"if its warm wet and not mine i dont touch it"

My rule is similar but I don't care if it's warm or cold.

 

[Shishkabob]

As USAF said, it's well known and studied quite a bit in the CJ classes I've been in.


That's why I make it a point for myself to call 911 in any situation that looks like it might benefit from it even if I'm just driving by. Better to had dispatch get multiple calls than no calls.

 

[adamjh3]

I can't tell from the video, was the blood obviously visible to the people walking by? I don't know about New York, but there's some areas here where a transient lying on the sidewalk isn't that out of the ordinary.

 

[bstone]

Not the first time this has happened in NY. It might say something about the folks in NY.

 

[spike91]

I wish I could say that I couldn't believe that video, however, after my limited time in EMS, I definitely can.

And while the practical me totally agrees with USAF about BSI, at the same time depending on the severity, the bleeding heart in me might win.

 

[DaniGrrl]

I find that video absolutely appalling. I can't imagine walking past and injured person and doing NOTHING. People depress me.

 

[usafmedic45]

the bleeding heart in me might win.

The bleeding heart in the victim may cause you to lose in the long run. Keep that in mind.

 

[46Young]

I wish I could say that I couldn't believe that video, however, after my limited time in EMS, I definitely can.

And while the practical me totally agrees with USAF about BSI, at the same time depending on the severity, the bleeding heart in me might win.

You don't know what diseases a person has. Anyway, what would you really do on the street with no equipment for a shot or stab victim anyway? If the ptis already unconscious before any units are onscene, they're not going to make it to the hospital alive, anyway.

It's not worth it to risk contracting a deadly or debilitating disease for a complete stranger, especially if you're off duty. Same thing for stopping with your POV for an MVA. You can get yourself killed real easy. Take a step back and think about that. You turned over that guy to check him out, got blood or feces on your hands, in through a break in the skin, or maybe a blood splash on your eye. Now you have HIV or Hep, and you're screwed for life. For what?

I've been called for the unconscious, who's really a drunk (after a full assessment) that has pulled a knife on me when attempting to rouse him. Several times. This was in Corona Queens around National/Roosevelt and vicinity for those in the know, where the sleeping homeless and/or drunk in the gutter, on the park bench, or on the back step of my ambulance is not uncommon. Situational awareness.

 

[NepoZnati]

Being a new EMT I can only agree with BSI rule and opinions of much wiser and more experienced here, but it is not issue of one not having BSI or trauma bag with you... It is issue that people really suck and that taking the pictures or having fun with not moving human body it's really appalling. Like someone said, "I have no problems with humanity, it's people who suck".

 

[usafmedic45]

Being a new EMT I can only agree with BSI rule and opinions of much wiser and more experienced here, but it is not issue of one not having BSI or trauma bag with you... It is issue that people really suck and that taking the pictures or having fun with not moving human body it's really appalling. Like someone said, "I have no problems with humanity, it's people who suck".

I prefer Gandhi's comment when asked what he thought of Western civilization: "I think it would be a wonderful idea."

 

[EMSLaw]

The bleeding heart in the victim may cause you to lose in the long run. Keep that in mind.

Not necessarily - most bloodborne pathogens are effectively stopped by in tact human skin.

I'm not disagreeing - I wouldn't want to go grabbing onto someone who was bleeding without gloves on. But I wouldn't look askance at anyone who decided that they should take some action, equipment or no.

Just, err, dial 9-1-1 on your cell phone BEFORE you get blood on your hands.

 

[mycrofft]

"Hey, lady, toss me down your dish gloves!".

Anyone remember Kitty Genovese?:sad:

 

[usafmedic45]

Anyone remember Kitty Genovese

Ever read the research into the case that says there was at least one phone call made to the cops by a witness and there were a lot fewer than the supposed 35+ witnesses? The story was significantly hyped up at least in the opinion of most social psychologists who have seriously looked into the case.

 

[usafmedic45]

Not necessarily - most bloodborne pathogens are effectively stopped by in tact human skin.

I'm not disagreeing - I wouldn't want to go grabbing onto someone who was bleeding without gloves on.

Of course, you need to keep in mind that my decision tree for offering assistance while off duty pretty much consists of:
1-Is the victim a kid or an animal? Yes: Help them if it can be done safely No: Go to question 2
2-Do I know the person? Yes: Go to question 4 No: Go to question 3
3- Am I stuck in the situation/do other bystanders know that I'm medically trained? Yes- Help them if it can be done safely No- Go to question 4
4-Do I like the person? Yes: Help them if it can be done safely No: Do not get involved even if it means standing idly by; thank God for no statuatory requirement to render care

 

[firetender]

A World Gone Upside Down

See, Gang, the whole thing was strangers were dying for no Galdammn reason. People who you didn't know were dropping dead, getting run over, shot, choking, bleeding out, seizing, or whatever and NOBODY WAS HELPING.

So a bunch of people got together, disrupted their lives, started lobbying for things to change so people who for no reason of their own (or even if self-inflicted!) got wounded, they'd get help. It seemed to be the civilized thing to do at the time.

Then, people started training others so they'd know what to do. And THEN, they started to train professionals so that they could REALLY DO SOMETHING TO HELP. And then you know what happened?

These new guys, who FINALLY had the knowledge to make a difference felt like it was a kind of sacred trust. Walking by (as many here said they'd do) wasn't even in the equation. How could it be? It would negate the intention of ALL those people who came before to make sure that such knowledge would never be withheld from anyone again. And it means nothing to me that you'd use your cell phone to call it in.

What I'm hearing is that the posters feel it's okay to use their skills arbitrarily because THERE IS A CHANCE a stricken person has a blood borne pathogen, and THEY DON'T HAVE GLOVES. Because of this? Because of that? Perhaps each medic should wear a list around their neck stating what they are NOT comfortable doing, and won't! so the patient knows what's not coming.

Sorry, Buddy, can't work on your heart because I ain't got a defibrillator. If you can't do something without your tools, you shouldn't be a medic.

Having come up from where no one could do anything and I sacrificed so I could, I can't turn my powers on and off at my convenience, that is a betrayal of my mission. The skills are there to use and I have an obligation to use them.

"Not if my life is in danger!" you exclaim?

It is never NOT in danger in this work or off-duty. I am as fragile as the people I'm called on to help. What the hell is the essence of this work? Poop comes out of nowhere and strikes people down. Helping at all, in any way puts me in danger. Just because I may see a specific danger does not mean I am justified in turning my back on someone in need.

There are things you can do to insulate yourself from (blood, sharp objects, smoke, 5150s...FILL IN THE BLANK!) and at least do something. No one even looked at that option.

The whole thing kind of sickens me, to tell ya the truth. I don't get it.

...AND, I'll be the first to admit I could picture myself withdrawing my ability to intervene because of a perception of my life being in danger. But what I suspect is I wouldn't have time, I've been trained to act.