don't want to volunteer

[DrParasite]

Thanks, that makes me feel I am doing the right thing.

sure if you want to work for minimum wage, work for a company that will let you get hurt on the job and then fire you for it (after making you feel like it's all your fault and refuse to send you to a doctor), for right ahead, I am sure you are making the right choice. whatever makes you happy.

I read through everyone's responses and I thank you all for taking the time to respond. You've helped me make an important decision. I'm going to pay for the EMT-B myself (and the CPR for health care providers prereq class) and then will see if I can get a paid gig. There are services here that advertise all the time that they will take newly certified EMTs so I'm hoping it will work out. I will report back and let you know how it turns out.

you go do that. I guarantee you that you will not get hired by a 911 agency, at least not any reputable one. coming out of EMT class with NO experience, NO connections, and only basic training? you won't find a job doing 911. if anything, you might find a job on a private transport company doing mindless IFTs, but even they typically want at least a year of experience if you expect to be paid anything more than $10 an hour. But good luck trying to find one.

You do not see people working day-jobs as electricians or something and volunteering 12 hours a week as surgeons on top of that. I have never met a doctor or nurse that only works in a medical capacity as a volunteer, as many EMTs do, save a few who worked in the field, retired, and now volunteer occasionally.

i guess you never heard of doctor's without boarders. it's a small little organization where doctors volunteer their time to help people who can't afford a full time staffed system. they probably have a website if you can google it.

Nor do you see hospitals run entirely by volunteer doctors and nurses in the United States, as we see many of our EMS systems.

yep. most hospitals get enough patients and generate enough revenue to pay everyone. many small EMS systems don't make enough to generate enough revenue to pay people 24/7.

Why pay people well to do a job that so many willingly do for free? Why increase education standards for certification, when many of the volunteers will be unwilling or unable to meet higher standards and simply walk?

Aren't you an EMT who isn't on an ambulance? have you ever been a volunteer? have you ever been on an ambulance?

the whole "volunteers keep paid wages down" is the biggest LIE and SCAM. One has nothing to do with the other, in almost every case. It's just a myth that ignorant people perpetuate. The only time it does factor in is what you have paid EMTs and volunteer EMTs working in the same area, for the same agency. if I want to work as an EMT in a city, and volunteer in my home town, that's my choice. what I do in my spare time is my time is my business. and I expect to be paid well to work, and if i want to volunteer on an ambulance, a fire truck, a little league coach, or at a soup kitchen, that has nothing to do with my pay rate at my job.

btw, many volunteers are willing to take additional classes, increase CEUs, and increase their education. don't paint everyone with such a broad brush. unless you want me to be throwing out all the negative stereotypes about CNAs.......

for full disclosure, I am completely in favor of 24/7 paid EMS coverage nationwide, funded by the tax payers. now, knowing that most states won't do that, I have to accept the system as it is. and if I chose to volunteer (i have in the past, currently do no), it is not because I like giving my services away for free, but rather because if I ever need an ambulance, I would the most qualified and trained person treating me, even if I was the one who trained them. Call me selfish, but it's all about self preservation, and doing what best for me and my family (and indirectly for my neighbors)

 

[medic417]

1.i guess you never heard of doctor's without boarders.

2. most hospitals get enough patients and generate enough revenue to pay everyone. many small EMS systems don't make enough to generate enough revenue to pay people 24/7.

3. the whole "volunteers keep paid wages down" is the biggest LIE and SCAM. One has nothing to do with the other, in almost every case. It's just a myth that ignorant people perpetuate.

1. Never heard of Doctor's w/o boarders, but I guess possible if they own rental property?:wacko:

2. Many hospitals are subsidized by taxes.

3. Most ignorant statement of the week, maybe the month on this site. When people offer to do something for less it drives down the going rate of any service or product. Might want to take an elementary economics class.

 

[firemed17]

Reading how much you guys paid for your classes makes me want to move to your states! 300, 600?? My soon to start EMT-B Class is around 1,400; Including Books, Tuition, and the Uniforms.

 

[TransportJockey]

I paid $120 for EMT-B class, including book from amazon Didn't have a uniform required at all

 

[mcdonl]

Well OP... consider this.

You will not defeat the fact that us volunteers are ruining your industry by driving down the wages and offering lesser quality of care (I hope you read the sarcasm because I would match my desire to learn against ANYONE... period...)

so, consider this...

Don't look at it as volunteering. Look at it as you "gracing" some poor little Po-dunk town with your awesomeness and maybe you would even get to respond to a few good calls and add to your resume. Maybe if you are rude enough, you could even squeeze the humanitarian component right out of being a volunteer. Sounds better than being a taxi for little old ladies in one of those IFT companies that pay some pidley $15 an hour or something. The majority of the calls we handle (1 or 2 a day.... not much, but it adds up...) are good old fashioned country boy trauma.... gun shots, motorcycle/atv crashes, hi speed MVA's.... you may be glad you did a "stint" in the prison of volunteerism

Just a thought

 

[DrParasite]

3. Most ignorant statement of the week, maybe the month on this site. When people offer to do something for less it drives down the going rate of any service or product. Might want to take an elementary economics class.

if you actually took that econ class, you would know there are many factors affect value of a product. What an individual does or owns in another area has nothing to do with the value of said service or item in question, except when the buyers permit the outside variable to affect the price. simple solution: don't agree to pay for peanuts, and you won't have that problem.

but nice try

 

[LucidResq]

i guess you never heard of doctor's without boarders. it's a small little organization where doctors volunteer their time to help people who can't afford a full time staffed system. they probably have a website if you can google it.

No but I've heard of Doctors Without Borders. And that organization illustrates my point entirely. Doctors, nurses, etc going on brief mission trips for generally less than a year. It is a temporary assignment. It it not in the US. Although there are definitely lack of access issues in rural areas of the US, you cannot compare them directly to the extremely impoverished, war-torn regions that Doctors Without Borders serves. By the way, they are paid too. Not a lot but they are paid.

yep. most hospitals get enough patients and generate enough revenue to pay everyone. many small EMS systems don't make enough to generate enough revenue to pay people 24/7.

Tax revenue.

Aren't you an EMT who isn't on an ambulance? have you ever been a volunteer? have you ever been on an ambulance?

How is this relevant? Yes sir, I've volunteered for Search and Rescue for the past 3 years, but you wouldn't see me doing volunteer EMS - there is a big difference, believe it or not. You think I'm some heartless ***** that's against volunteerism in general? Or that I'm a complete idiot that knows nothing about how EMS works because I don't drive a big rig with flashy lights? Yes, I have been on an ambulance. Am I now qualified enough to have an opinion?

btw, many volunteers are willing to take additional classes, increase CEUs, and increase their education. don't paint everyone with such a broad brush. unless you want me to be throwing out all the negative stereotypes about CNAs.......

Are you freaking kidding me? Go ahead and diss CNAs, because I really won't take it personally, I'll probably join in with you. I think it's hilarious that you're even threatening that. I know that many volunteers will accept higher standards, but many won't. Do you really think every, or even most, volunteer EMTs would support requiring say, an Associate's Degree to be EMT-B certified? No, and can you blame them? I wouldn't want to do more than a 120 hour advanced first aid class if I wasn't going to get paid for having it.

 

[LucidResq]

if you actually took that econ class, you would know there are many factors affect value of a product. What an individual does or owns in another area has nothing to do with the value of said service or item in question, except when the buyers permit the outside variable to affect the price. simple solution: don't agree to pay for peanuts, and you won't have that problem.

but nice try

Nobody has ever said that this is the only factor keeping wages low. It's one of many.

 

[EchoMikeTango]

Well, I am going to agree with DrP on this one.

If you don't want to volley, thats well and good, however, unless you have a lot of connections, you will not be working 911 for a while, if at all.

However, in your superior age ( ? ) Im sure you can afford to run IFTs at 13/hr .

and i find it weird that you are worried about the cost of the course ( which I paid $550 ) , I mean, really, you complaining about 550. Its a 120hour course.

 

[usafmedic45]

However, in your superior age ( ? ) Im sure you can afford to run IFTs at 13/hr .

I won't treat patients for less than $23 an hour, so unless I am feeling particularly altruistic (read as "volunteering for an agency") or become filthy rich and need something to do with my free time that doesn't involve sailing, flying and otherwise living the good life, I will never work in ground EMS again.

 

[usafmedic45]

My soon to start EMT-B Class is around 1,400; Including Books, Tuition, and the Uniforms

Are you getting college credit for it?

 

[DrParasite]

Tax revenue.

agreed. 100%. absolutely. unfortunately, many municipalities don't want to have their taxes raised, and don't want to spend the money on a 24/7 paid system. I don't agree with it, but that's what the AHJ has decided.

How is this relevant? Yes sir, I've volunteered for Search and Rescue for the past 3 years, but you wouldn't see me doing volunteer EMS - there is a big difference, believe it or not. You think I'm some heartless ***** that's against volunteerism in general? Or that I'm a complete idiot that knows nothing about how EMS works because I don't drive a big rig with flashy lights? Yes, I have been on an ambulance. Am I now qualified enough to have an opinion?

you are ignorant. how can you talk about something when you have never done it? it's like paid firefighters who talk down about volunteer firefighters, despite never having actually done the job. it's all rumor and "well, i heard this," but never having actually been in the position. it's a lot of talk, but unless you have actually done the job, how can you pretend to be an expert on it? so you will have to forgive me if I don't hold what you say about volunteer EMS, or EMS in general, since you are not on an ambulance. don't take it personally, it's the same with a cop or firefighter or RN who is an EMT, but doesn't work on an ambulance. You have the training (well, just the basic training anyway), but not the experience. so no, I wouldn't consider you qualified to have an opinion on a topic you know nothing about.

and you volunteered for Search and Rescue? OMG WHY??? let you agency actually pay you to do that job, make yourself more valuable, I can't believe you would provide that service for free.

Do you really think every, or even most, volunteer EMTs would support requiring say, an Associate's Degree to be EMT-B certified? No, and can you blame them? I wouldn't want to do more than a 120 hour advanced first aid class if I wasn't going to get paid for having it.

considering many paid paramedics won't even go for a 2 years associates degree as the baseline, why would you think an EMT basic would need an associates degree??????

 

[MTEMTB]

I wasn'y planning on saying anything concerning this thread until I hit upon one comment.
"Charity Doesn't Pay"


Really depends upon what you consider payment. If all you care about is money then no it doesn't.
But if you care about that feeling good about yourself there is not enough money in the world to buy it.

I "bought" that feeling numerous times in my life even before coming into the EMS world and there is not enough money in the world to "buy" that feeling from me.

I pity those who never "buy" it.

 

[fortsmithman]

In my state (NJ) I get the impression most people sign on to volunteer with their town's first aid squad mainly because the cost of the EMT-B course will be paid for by the state training fund. But, I personally don't want to volunteer. I feel that if I'm going to do this type of work, I should be paid. So I have a bit of a dilemma. Do I pay for the course myself and then get apply for a job with an ambulance service, or join my town's squad so they'll pay for the course and also to get experience? I should mention that my town requires a commitment of a 12 hour shift every week and an additional 6 hour shift every other weekend.

I"m a member of my towns volly/paid on call EMS dept. We are not required to work shifts and stay at a central station. We only have to go to the ambulance bay for a weekly changeover meeting which s only 30 min to an hour. When respond to calls from our homes our places of employment and other places exactly like my town's VFD. If I had to sit around at a station for 6 or 12hrs then I'd rather be paid for every minute I would be required to be there. On average after the tones go off we leave the ambulance bay between 5 and 10 minutes after we get paged. From the ambulance bay which is located at the local hospital which is in the middle of town we can be at either end in roughly 5 minutes. All of our members would go paid full time in a heartbeat even though it may mean a substantial pay loss.

 

[mcdonl]

OP... not trying to change your mind... but... just got back from a GSW Suicide attempt... failed attemt, good call... Just saying, you may not get paid much to volunteer but you will get experience, and in this field it seems to trump all other education. I value education, but I agree with the philosophy that experience pays...

PS - I was late for my day job

 

[NJnewbie]

OP... not trying to change your mind... but... just got back from a GSW Suicide attempt... failed attemt, good call... Just saying, you may not get paid much to volunteer but you will get experience, and in this field it seems to trump all other education. I value education, but I agree with the philosophy that experience pays...

PS - I was late for my day job

This is one of the things I was wondering about. I have the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that I won't get any good experience as a volly. I live in a town of only 4000 people. A paid company handles calls during the day because there aren't enough vollies at that time, but then the vollies take over after 6pm or so. I know there's no way to predict what types of calls I'd go on, but wouldn't I be better off (from an experience point of view) doing paid service?

 

[Sassafras]

My paid unit is non emergency so I get most of my experience from my volly unit. I don't think our town even hits 4k, but our unit is one that is 100% volunteer and they make a point to try and show up the paid units nearby. Our chief handles things like a paid unit minus the paycheck, but he's also very appreciative of any runs we go on and they do their best to make us feel like we are wanted and needed. So, no we don't get a pay check, but we do get paid for our work in the vol. unit.

 

[46Young]

This is one of the things I was wondering about. I have the impression (and I could be completely wrong) that I won't get any good experience as a volly. I live in a town of only 4000 people. A paid company handles calls during the day because there aren't enough vollies at that time, but then the vollies take over after 6pm or so. I know there's no way to predict what types of calls I'd go on, but wouldn't I be better off (from an experience point of view) doing paid service?

In general, having a paid job history on your resume is "legit". Employers know that the standards, attendance requirements, accountability for poor pt care, and proficiency level of members can vary widely from dept to dept in the vollies. Is your volly dept run by competent members, or is it a social club rampant with cronyism and whackers? Do they hold you to certain standards, train often, or are they just happy to have warm bodies and just leave them alone? Do you have tenured, knowledgeable leadership, or is your crew chief/officer a 20 year old kid? Do the more tenured members dominate pt care and just have you do a BP, O2 and carry bags on each call, or are you encouraged to participate in pt care decisions? Are members required to respond on all calls while on shift, or do they allow the skells to remain in quaters for sick calls and such, as if it's beneath them? Do they run many calls, or are no hitters a common occurence. What are their QA/QI policies and procedures?

For the reasons above, it's difficult for a prospective employer to put an accurate value to the volunteer experience on your resume. In addition, what if your prospective employer dislikes the volly company that you run with?

With a paid work history, the employer can more accurately gauge your job role, call volume, call types, training, and possibly a more objective opinion from superiors, (maybe some bitterness if you want to interview for paid depts, rendering you unavailable for volunteer service. In the paid world, looking for per diem hours at other companies is commonplace.

Edit: At my old hospital, they wanted six months NYC 911 or five years volunteer experience to do 911 right away, and most of the supervisors were volunteers themselves in Long Island. What does that tell you?

 

[Sassafras]

I can't imagine a volunteer unit behaving like that, but then again, I have the luck to run in a unit that has seasoned medics at their disposal (not that they run as medics here as we are a bls unit) but also our training officer has a 100% pass rate for any students she brings to the state exams. She's sort of known in these parts for her pass rate, as well as pushing the unit for propriety.

 

[46Young]

I wasn'y planning on saying anything concerning this thread until I hit upon one comment.
"Charity Doesn't Pay"


Really depends upon what you consider payment. If all you care about is money then no it doesn't.
But if you care about that feeling good about yourself there is not enough money in the world to buy it.

I "bought" that feeling numerous times in my life even before coming into the EMS world and there is not enough money in the world to "buy" that feeling from me.

I pity those who never "buy" it.

You're right for the most part. However, in the real world, we need to eat. At my house, one member suggested that I volunteer in my county where he rides off duty. My captain replied that I have a family with two children. If I'm going to be away from them on a regular basis, to give up irreplaceable time with them during their formative years, the family would be better served by bringing in additional income to pay for the chidren's 529's, family vacations, fund your retirement, contribute to the emergency fund, etc. My wife says that I'm out of the house more than she would like just with my 56 hour schedule, let alone if I were to volunteer. At least I can sell her on working OT or per diem work. My job currently just pays for our expenses. Some need to work second jobs as a matter of necessity.

I understand the "feel good" stuff, but there are many of us out there living paycheck to paycheck as it is, or worse. "Feel good" stuff won't feed my family or shelter them. This is a major factor in the dwindling participation of volunteer EMS and firefighters.