Do you think supervisors should have to do Truck Time

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unleashedfury

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We been provided new SOG's to follow by for the new year, None of which any of the staff agree with but its do it or pack your jelly bucket

However, our supervisor made it very clear that he hasn't been on a truck in 14 years, and he plans to keep it that way, Thats what he has employees for. And he is well out of touch with todays standards.

Don't mention Evidence based medicine and new ways of doing things, Such as work a code on scene and with no noted changes call for medical control for termination of efforts. I got nearly fired over getting a release on scene because efforts were futile. Even though this is our protocol now,

He's very out of touch with the way EMS is going, I believe its these good ol boys and the good ol way of doing things cause thats how we always did them is what hampers the advancement of EMS systems and the Prehospital field fail to advance.

My question is do you think that supervisors should have to do some truck time a month, I was a supervisor in another company years ago and the policy was you had to do 24 hours (2 shifts) of truck time a month. I actually liked it, it was way better than sitting behind a desk daily. and it kept from keeping the rigamortis from setting in.
 
This is why I'm glad that I'm a first line supervisor and run a truck every shift. Our operations supervisor gets on a truck as often as possible. We have it good here.


I do think that our supervisors need to maintain currency in the field and actually see how we work
 
unleashedfury said:
We been provided new SOG's to follow by for the new year, None of which any of the staff agree with but its do it or pack your jelly bucket

However, our supervisor made it very clear that he hasn't been on a truck in 14 years, and he plans to keep it that way, Thats what he has employees for. And he is well out of touch with todays standards.

Don't mention Evidence based medicine and new ways of doing things, Such as work a code on scene and with no noted changes call for medical control for termination of efforts. I got nearly fired over getting a release on scene because efforts were futile. Even though this is our protocol now,

He's very out of touch with the way EMS is going, I believe its these good ol boys and the good ol way of doing things cause thats how we always did them is what hampers the advancement of EMS systems and the Prehospital field fail to advance.

My question is do you think that supervisors should have to do some truck time a month, I was a supervisor in another company years ago and the policy was you had to do 24 hours (2 shifts) of truck time a month. I actually liked it, it was way better than sitting behind a desk daily. and it kept from keeping the rigamortis from setting in.
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To answer your direct question, no i do not think they need to do truck time.

IF they are being a proper supervisor then they should be out on the road backing their crews up on serious calls. While i have made the transition to supervisor at my service, if i hear something come over that sounds serious and may need another set of hands, i hop in the car and ride it in. As long as this is occurring i dont think the supervisor needs to be on the physical truck.
 
Bullets said:
To answer your direct question, no i do not think they need to do truck time.

IF they are being a proper supervisor then they should be out on the road backing their crews up on serious calls. While i have made the transition to supervisor at my service, if i hear something come over that sounds serious and may need another set of hands, i hop in the car and ride it in. As long as this is occurring i dont think the supervisor needs to be on the physical truck.
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Well let me reword that, he hasn't been to a scene, on a truck, or anywhere near the day to day operations we carry out, he supervises from his desk and at home if he hears a serious call going on, Then calls the crews to "coach them" if they didn't follow his ways. When I say he hasn't been on a truck in 14 years I mean exactly that. The farthest he has been in a truck was to look at the new one we got. In the bay
 
yes, but not for the reasons you think.

Many supervisors and administrators become poor clinicians because they don't do it on a regular basis. if you are a pencil pusher who doesn't do paramedic stuff, how good are you going to be when you have to assess and treat a patient using the latest treatments? That isn't neccessarily a bad thing though; their job is to manage and supervise, they don't need to be great clinicians to do their job (but it doesn't hurt).

The other side it, is they are on a truck, how much supervision and managing are they actually doing?

With all that beign said, I absolutely do think supervisors and managers should do shifts on the ambulance. Often management and supervisors enact policies that look good on paper, but in practice, don't work out so well. or leave their employees working in poorer conditions than they realize.

For example, one of my former managers came in at 2am to cover a paramedic sick out. He walked in, sat in the ambulance and was shocked to find the GPS was being held on the mount by medical tape. 4 crews had wrote it up, and emailed him about it, but he didn't realize it until he saw it for himself. suffice it to say, it was replaced 2 days later.

I do think that supervisors should be off the ambulances, in a seperate vehicle. a supervisor who is on the ambulance isn't supervising anyone except for that crew; they are doing the job of a field provider. But putting a supervisor on the ambulance on overtime, or when another supervisor is handling supervisory duties, reminds the white shirts what the blue shirts have to go through on a regular basis, and tends to make them more grounded and understanding when issues arrise.
 
TransportJockey said:
This is why I'm glad that I'm a first line supervisor and run a truck every shift. Our operations supervisor gets on a truck as often as possible. We have it good here.


I do think that our supervisors need to maintain currency in the field and actually see how we work
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Same with us. All our supervisors will still in calls (except for one). All are required to maintain their paramedic cert.
 
My dept is a small one and our EMS supervisor and Assistant Supervisor do go on calls.
 
Thankfully as a supervisor I am able to hop calls and occasionally have the box medic follow
me in the sup rig while I take the patient.
 
My supervisor rides occasionally, and makes sure he does with every new hire that comes to our shift. I don't believe he is required to though. Some of the supes here do, and some don't. All of our assistant supervisors are on an ambulance permanently, unless they are filling in as the shift supervisor.
 
unleashedfury said:
My question is do you think that supervisors should have to do some truck time a month, I was a supervisor in another company years ago and the policy was you had to do 24 hours (2 shifts) of truck time a month. I actually liked it, it was way better than sitting behind a desk daily. and it kept from keeping the rigamortis from setting in.
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Yes if a front line supervisor.

No if anything higher.

Front line supervisors in public safety need to be accessible, which typically means a QRV of some sort. I'd opt to keep them off a box so that they don't end up waylaid on transports if you don't have to. These folks should keep up clinical competencies and be involved in the QA/QI of their "crews". You're more a gunny not an Lt.

If you're above the front line, then absolutely not. You're just going to step on toes in the field. You're a pointed haired pencil pusher and need to focus on being a manager rather than a ground pounder. I can teach my managers how I most effectively do my job far quicker than they can learn how I do my job most effectively.
 
I support supervisors running calls but being off the ambulance in a busy system. No need for them to get trapped on calls that are easy to handle. In the city every call gets a fire medic and the ambulance medic so there isn't often much need for extra hands. For county calls with volunteer departments the supe will often roll those calls since he is likely to beat the ambulance and will bring two medics on scene.

When we are short people and they end up in a car, efforts are made to keep them at a slower post so they'll in theory be more available.
 
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At my former job, the supervisors did not like getting called out. Ex. when checking our drug boxes before heading out and we came across expired meds we would call dispatch to tell them we have to resupply our drug box. However if a call came in we would have to go out and do the transport. We would inform dispatch and the supervisor that we need to replace our expired drugs first, and they would throw a hissy fit about taking more time to replace meds than heading out. This was a private company, I understand that transports are the primary money makers. But being prepared should come first. They would try to tell us that its a BLS call. It may be BLS, but the patient could deteriorate and possibly require ALS intervention. This occurred alot and one of the guys had enough and called the pharmacy board and explained the situation. I dont know the details or if an investigation was performed, but a few days later the guy I worked with was fired, and the news did their own investigation and found out that the company had a large number of violations, broken monitors, expired drugs, rigs unfit for use ect.
 
Bullets said:
To answer your direct question, no i do not think they need to do truck time.

IF they are being a proper supervisor then they should be out on the road backing their crews up on serious calls. While i have made the transition to supervisor at my service, if i hear something come over that sounds serious and may need another set of hands, i hop in the car and ride it in. As long as this is occurring i dont think the supervisor needs to be on the physical truck.
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One advantage of supervisors on trucks is the effect on cleanliness and equipment care. If crews know that irritable supervisors are frequently and randomly assigned to trucks, they know that they are at risk of a "Who the f*** was the last crew on this truck?! Look at this f***ing mess!" incident.

That is a benefit to other EMTs, because otherwise, they get stuck following behind the slob who otherwise wouldn't care about the mess he leaves behind.
 
Make the supervisor ride with his boss.
 
Our supervisors are required to staff units when we're down cars or if we have pending calls. No if ands or buts about it. There's only one supe I wouldn't trust taking care of me or my loved ones.
 
Bullets said:
To answer your direct question, no i do not think they need to do truck time.

IF they are being a proper supervisor then they should be out on the road backing their crews up on serious calls. While i have made the transition to supervisor at my service, if i hear something come over that sounds serious and may need another set of hands, i hop in the car and ride it in. As long as this is occurring i dont think the supervisor needs to be on the physical truck.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, as a field supervisor with my volly squad, I am expected to do the same. I respond to serious calls, and sometimes very basic calls. Both my paid positions due the same.

However, I think when you say supervisor it is important to discuss what their position is. Are they a field employee or administration employee? Management is more than just skills and ability in the field. Good management takes place behind the scenes. Many private companies and hospitals have CEOs that do not have extensive medical background. The CEO at one job, is an EMT but we have many RNs on staff and even physicians. There is more to it though and sometimes what you need is someone that does not actively run the streets.
 
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