Do you think EMS should be paramilitary?

[mycrofft]

I think some folks confuse "being paramilitary" to "adopting military technique".

Whole different balls of wax.

 

[Second]

That is now the way we do it and PHTLS teaches. NREMT even now tests with tourniquet being way to control bleeding.

yep yep, at the beginning of the year they were teaching us the lifting and pressure points, about two months ago they told us to throw all that out and go back to the tourniquet. I'm sure in two or three years they'll change it again.

 

[hrmeeks]

I should have placed a poll I guess. Seems based on responses most including myself oppose paramilitary style of EMS.

I do agree with the need to be in shape but that can be done w/o acting like we are military. I have heard of a service that requires you to exercise 1 hour per shift paid. Your ambulance is sent to the gym and you are allowed to work out. Others have actually had contests to motivate. And there is nothing wrong with saying if you are to out of shape to do the job you will be fired, if that doesn't motivate nothing will.

As to the we've always done it this way it has been shown in many topics that much of EMS is based on traditions that have continued despite scientific evidence against. For example back boarding all trauma, proven bad yet many still argue it is better to err on side of caution.

you hump 16 calls in 24 hrs and see if you wanna go a gym for an hour.... me all i wanna do is hit a bed for about 10 hrs. Besides personal fitness should be exactly that personal. A job cannot mandate that you do any p.t. only that you pass testing.

As for the paramilitary comment i ment it to be for the dicipline, the respect, integerity and the brotherhood. Not badges or salutes maybe a ranking system deffinatly a uniform teaching academy.

 

[JPINFV]

a uniform teaching academy.

Uniform, such as a standard curriculum/serious curriculum standards, or uniform as wearing uniforms?

 

[hrmeeks]

Uniform, such as a standard curriculum/serious curriculum standards, or uniform as wearing uniforms?

standard teaching academy....... b/c every school has a different way of completing the program

 

[TransportJockey]

standard teaching academy....... b/c every school has a different way of completing the program

Before we can have that, we to standardize scope for the country.

 

[JPINFV]

I don't think that there's any healthcare program that is that rigid. Hell, even medical school has three or four different styles of teaching (traditional, problem based learning, systems, hybrid, and probably a few others). What I would like to see is required accreditation (yes, it's moving that way), and then have accreditation play hardball to make sure that education standards and goals are met. Personally, I don't care how the knowledge is crammed into the heads of the students, I just care that it's crammed in at the end. If someone learns better with one style, and there's a school that is willing to teach in that style, then more power to them.

 

[JPINFV]

Before we can have that, we to standardize scope for the country.

No. You don't. All physicians take one of two sets of licensing exams depending on their tradition (allopathic vs osteopathic, albeit many DOs take the MD exams for residency purposes). The surgeon, family med, internal med, emergency med, and psychiatrist all take the same 3 exams and practical before they are fully licensed, yet all of them end up practicing wildly different parts of medicine. How can medicine expect a psychiatrist and an endocrinologist to take the same licensing exam, yet we get our collective panties in a bunch because of a relatively small difference in scope of practice from one local to another?

 

[hrmeeks]

Before we can have that, we to standardize scope for the country.

not true rn have many different skillsets and each one varies some state to state but they have a standard teaching pratice credits transfer between schools

 

[EMTrainer]

Uniform Teaching Academy

I don't believe that EMS education can, or should be taught, exactly the same everywhere. Yes, we need a standardized curriculum, but there has to be accomodations for different teaching and learning styles as well as the ability to adapt the flexible content to regional differences.

 

[medichopeful]

As someone who has yet to enter into EMS, here are my thoughts:

I believe that EMS should be paramilitary in some ways, but not in others. I believe that the way they appear should be paramilitary (pressed uniforms, shined boots, etc.), but not the way they interact with each other or with the public. Here is why I think this: EMTs are out in the public eye nearly 100% of the time. They need to have a very professional look about them, because one of the ways to be respected is to look professional and sharp. It gives a good first impression. Would you rather have a sloppy looking, unkempt EMS provider come to take care of yourself or a loved one? Or would you rather have somebody who is attentive to their uniform and looks like a professional?

Now, this brings me to my second point. Do I think that EMS should be paramilitary in the way they interact with the public and themselves (think how police interact sometimes. Not saying their way is wrong, just pointing it out)? Not in the least. as others have said, why would you want to cause more stress to a patient?

I do, however, think that ranks are important. Order is, I believe, good. But there is a time and a place for arguments about order, and a time and a place for all of the "sirs" and "maams." That place is behind closed doors, away from the public eye.

 

[JPINFV]

Since when did paramilitary attitudes becoming the sole source of looking professional while non-paramilitary is the domain for only the unkept? Holy false dichotomy Batman!

 

[medic417]

Since when did paramilitary attitudes becoming the sole source of looking professional while non-paramilitary is the domain for only the unkept? Holy false dichotomy Batman!

The Joker and the Riddler did it. To the batmobil Robin.

 

[medichopeful]

Since when did paramilitary attitudes becoming the sole source of looking professional while non-paramilitary is the domain for only the unkept? Holy false dichotomy Batman!

I was just stating my opinion. There is no need to mock it. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Does the fact that I have a different view than you mean that I am wrong? Nope. Does it mean that you are wrong? No.*




*Well actually, yes

 

[JPINFV]

Where is the mocking? Stating something along the lines of "I believe that the way they appear should be paramilitary (pressed uniforms, shined boots, etc.)" is the same as saying that only the military looks professional. This is a dictionary perfect example of a false dichotomy. If someone disagreeing and point out a classic fallacy in your thesis is somehow mocking, then you need to seriously reevaluate your definition of mock.

 

[Ridryder911]

I was just stating my opinion. There is no need to mock it. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion. Does the fact that I have a different view than you mean that I am wrong? Nope. Does it mean that you are wrong? No.*




*Well actually, yes

Actually no, not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Opinions should be based upon facts and knowledge and not careless whimsical thoughts. Seriously, would I ever consider to go to a physician forum and even discuss how things should be done? When in fact, I have never entered their profession or even completed medical school.

Kinda pompous isn't that anyone's opinion should have merit or weight without having the proper background of making than opinion.

R/r 911

 

[medichopeful]

Where is the mocking? Stating something along the lines of "I believe that the way they appear should be paramilitary (pressed uniforms, shined boots, etc.)" is the same as saying that only the military looks professional. This is a dictionary perfect example of a false dichotomy. If someone disagreeing and point out a classic fallacy in your thesis is somehow mocking, then you need to seriously reevaluate your definition of mock.

You are right. That was my bad. I read your post in the wrong way. Sorry for the confusion :blush:

When I originally wrote my first response, I did not mean to imply that only the military looks professional. That was, again, my fault. I meant to say that in my opinion, the best way to look professional in the EMS field (or any public service that deals primarily with people) is to look sharp. Does this mean military medals hanging on your shirt? No.

So please ignore my original post. I think that I have worded it a little bit better in this one.

Eric

 

[medichopeful]

Actually no, not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Opinions should be based upon facts and knowledge and not careless whimsical thoughts. Seriously, would I ever consider to go to a physician forum and even discuss how things should be done? When in fact, I have never entered their profession or even completed medical school.

Kinda pompous isn't that anyone's opinion should have merit or weight without having the proper background of making than opinion.

R/r 911

(I am going to respond to this in as respectfully a way as I can. If I come across any other way, forgive me.)

So you are basically saying that any thoughts I have on this subject are careless and whimsical? Because I have no medical training? Last time I checked, this was a public forum. In fact, you said it yourself in another post. Since it is a public forum, I am entitled to an opinion.

Now, if I had portrayed myself as an EMT or somebody in the medical field, the story would be a little different. However, I clearly stated in my first post in this thread that I am not in the EMS field. I clearly gave the disclaimer that I am not in the field. Read the first line of the post again. In fact, just read my signature. The disclaimer is there, too.

That being said, this brings me back to my right to have an opinion. I never asked for my opinion to have any weight to it. I just stated it. Did I EVER say that what I was saying was the "be-all-to-end-all?" I don't think so. If I wrote it that way, let me know and I will go change it.

I would honestly have no problem with somebody (yourself, anybody else) going onto a physicians forum and joining in the discussions, as long as they gave the disclaimer that they do not have the same level of training as everybody else. Of course, that is only when it comes to minor things, like the way people should dress. I would certainly hope that nobody would try to change actual procedures without the proper training. And as far as I know, that is not what I did.

So basically, what I am trying to say is that even though I am not in the medical field (yet), I still have the right to an opinion. Just as you or anybody else has the right to an opinion about anything they are not trained in, as long as they have the facts. Opinions not based in reality or completely off-the-wall are one thing. Basic opinions in a friendly thread are another thing entirely.

Eric

 

[paramedicmike]

Look at it this way. You gave us an opinion while, in the very same breath, telling us that you had no idea what you were talking about. Would you take someone seriously if s/he did that to you?

You are correct. You are entitled to an opinion even if you don't know what you're talking about. You are also entitled to be on the receiving end of criticism and complete dismissal of your opinion when you willingly acknowledge that you don't know what you're talking about. That doesn't just happen here in forums such as these. It happens in real life, too. Sometimes it happens with horrifically devastating results.

That's the beauty of a forum such as this. Everybody talks. Not just one person. Someone admitting they have no training in the subject matter is not someone people will readily listen to. But by committing yourself to obtaining that training gives you hope that as you learn more, more people will begin to take what you have to say seriously.

Until then, voicing an opinion while saying that you don't have any knowledge, training, education or otherwise to support your opinion is a surefire way for people to dismiss, disregard, and possibly outright ignore anything you have to say.

Good luck with your training!

 

[medichopeful]

Look at it this way. You gave us an opinion while, in the very same breath, telling us that you had no idea what you were talking about. Would you take someone seriously if s/he did that to you?

You are correct. You are entitled to an opinion even if you don't know what you're talking about. You are also entitled to be on the receiving end of criticism and complete dismissal of your opinion when you willingly acknowledge that you don't know what you're talking about. That doesn't just happen here in forums such as these. It happens in real life, too. Sometimes it happens with horrifically devastating results.

That's the beauty of a forum such as this. Everybody talks. Not just one person. Someone admitting they have no training in the subject matter is not someone people will readily listen to. But by committing yourself to obtaining that training gives you hope that as you learn more, more people will begin to take what you have to say seriously.

Until then, voicing an opinion while saying that you don't have any knowledge, training, education or otherwise to support your opinion is a surefire way for people to dismiss, disregard, and possibly outright ignore anything you have to say.

Good luck with your training!

This is not a matter of life or death. If I was telling how procedures should be done, that would be WAY out of line. But all I am saying is that I think EMS should be dressed professionally.

Now, I have come to realize that I may have screwed up my terminology. I am really trying to say that I believe that EMS should be dressed professionally. Maybe not paramilitary dress, but professional none-the-less.

There, I admitted my mistake. Hopefully this will help me gain a little more respect here.

Now, back to your post. I do not expect to just automatically get respect here. I realize that I do not have the training to be taken seriously, but I hope I can prove that I am not some nutjob who thinks he knows everything about EMS even though he is not in the field. With that being said, I have some education about the field, but it is only from self-study. Studies like reading books, reading this forum, reading about EMS on the internet, and spending time at my local FD (which does BLS/ALS for my town). Am I saying that I am all-knowledgeable about the field of EMS? No. Am I saying that I have the same authority as somebody who is in the field? Not in the least. I realize that I have very little training, but I am slightly educated. I am not just spouting information without studying the field a all. I am going to be entering the field, so the least I can do while waiting to take the EMT-B course is read up on the field.

As far as I know, I did not say anything about having no idea what I was talking about. There is a difference between saying that I have no training (which, if memory serves me, was what I said) and saying I have no idea what I am talking about.

With all this being said, let me say this: do I think that I should automatically be listened to? No. Do I think that I should be able to prove myself by showing that I am serious about studying the field I will be entering? Yes. Do I think that I have a lot of knowledge about EMS? No. Do I think I should be treated with respect, even though I am not in the field? Yes.