DC Firefighters whine about name change.

[Aidey]

And while publicly firefighters grumble about the cost of new shirts, hats, and jackets, which they pay out of pocket for, privately - they're more upset about a brand that says "FEMS,” which some might construe as less than flattering.


"I won't wear it!" said one sergeant who didn't want to be named.


He does have the option of wearing his dress uniform shirt instead.


"A patch is a logo, a patch is an image, a patch represents the team that you play for and if that changes to something you don't like or respect, that's a big deal," adds Farren.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/dc/some-firefighters-unhappy-with-dc-fire-and-ems-rebranding-032911

Would it be wrong to tell the DC firefighters to STFU?

 

[Veneficus]

I think the obvious solution is to remove EMS from the DCFD.

Not just on the patch.

 

[Minnick27]

Man, they are whining like a bunch of girls!

 

[BLSBoy]

Would it be wrong to tell the DC firefighters to STFU?

Yes. They have not had a raise in 5 years, and now the admin is gonna blow 100s of thousands of dollars on patches, stickers, decals and the man hours to replace them. Further, "FEMS" is a horrible acronym, and it goes on to kill decades upon decades of tradition. While I am one who is ALL for progress, this is insanity.
Finally, do you work for DCFD? Who are you to judge them and what they want? If anyone needs to "STFU", it would be you.

 

[Aidey]

I think the obvious solution is to remove EMS from the DCFD.

Not just on the patch.

No kidding. I do not want people providing medical care that are that delusional about their own self importance. Not that that isn't a problem elsewhere, DC just makes an art form out of it.

 

[dixie_flatline]

This is entirely political (obviously). It stems from the Rosenbaum murder back in 2006. Prominent writer/editor from the New York Times was robbed in NW DC. An ambo took 20+ minutes to arrive in a nice area of town, and he was deemed drunk by the responding crew and transported low priority to a distant hospital (20+ more minutes). Waited over an hour to be seen, until he started vomiting and the hospital staff finally realized his brains had been beaten in with a steel pipe. In lieu of filing a huge suit, the family agreed to a task force charged with auditing/evaluating the district's EMS structure top-to-bottom.

This re-branding seems like little more than a token gesture to show that they really do take EMS seriously in the Fire Department now. And yeah, FEMS might not be as "cool" as DCFD on the back of your manly tshirt, but the real gripe is the one echoed by BLSBoy - my neighbor is a DC firefighter and they haven't had a raise in years. Now they're watching the department (who didn't ask the union for any input) unilaterally decide to spend the money to re-brand every uniform, vehicle, and piece of equipment in the district.

 

[PotatoMedic]

I think the obvious solution is to remove EMS from the DCFD.

Not just on the patch.

I think the obvious solution is to dissolve DC"fire" and start from scratch. That place is a total cluster.

 

[46Young]

Numer one, yes, they haven't had a raise in years, and they're also fighting against being moved from a four platoon schedule to a three platoon schedule, which will save the city money, but also extend their work hours from 42 to 56. DC is way to busy to have a 24/48 variant. Like others said, if money's really that tight, then now's not the time to worry about logos and patches.

Number two, I was watching the story on Fox5 last night, and it was reported that the employees would have to purchase clothing out of their own pockets if this change is put into effect.

"DC Emergency Services" or something similar would have been a better choice. The average layperson won't know what "FEMS" stands for, so it's a poor choice of an acronym. It sounds like a name for a female softball team or bowling league.

My county says "Fire and Rescue." Alexandria says "Fire and EMS." Nothing wrong with either one. FEMS is an acronym no one has ever heard of, and defeats the purpose of a citizen being able to identify who you are and what your function is. Does FEMS mean federal something or other? Why are the feds in my hallway? Is there a raid going on?

 

[Farmer2DO]

Yes. They have not had a raise in 5 years, and now the admin is gonna blow 100s of thousands of dollars on patches, stickers, decals and the man hours to replace them. Further, "FEMS" is a horrible acronym, and it goes on to kill decades upon decades of tradition. While I am one who is ALL for progress, this is insanity.
Finally, do you work for DCFD? Who are you to judge them and what they want? If anyone needs to "STFU", it would be you.

Really? That's how we address people on this forum? You don't need to agree with everything everyone else says. If you did, it would be a boring place. You can, however, treat other people and their opinions with a bit of respect, even if they don't agree with yours.

I personally agree with Aidey. While this may not be the most opportune time to be spending money to change all of this over, big f***ing deal! They once again prove that EMS is the red headed step child.

And, hundreds of thousands of dollars? Where did that come from, because I didn't see that anywhere in the article.

As for the pay raise in 5 years and paying for their own uniform shirts, cry me a river. Let's compare that to paramedics who run more calls, have more knowledge of medicine (and don't be fooled; DCFD took on EMS to justify their existence with call volume), are treated like second class citizens in many areas, and generally don't get anywhere near the benefits packages that FFs do. They have civil service jobs that are untion protected with retirement packages, and all of that is better than most people get that work their butts off in EMS. Has anyone noticed that we're in a recession? Private industry is laying people off, and the people that get to keep their jobs are not getting raises, or are getting pay cuts. So what makes the FFs think they are entitled to MORE taxpayer money? Union mentality at its best.

There is an option to wear a dress uniform shirt instead, so yes, they don't have to buy their own shirts if they don't want to.

"I won't wear it!" I can just picture this seargent, laying on the floor, fists bunched, flailing his arms back and forth in a full blown temper tantrum to make a 3 year old proud. Grow up.

As for the union members not getting any input? Who cares? Again, in the private sector, people realize that management gets to make these decisions without having to kiss the rear ends of the employees. Ever think that management may have different goals than the employees? Like not getting sued because of the incompetence of your agency causing the death of someone with enough money and influence to do something about it?

Did anyone ask the EMS employees what they thought about finally being included? Maybe they think it's a good thing. Oh yeah, Fire doesn't care what EMS thinks.

So yeah, DC Firefighters.....STFU.

 

[Farmer2DO]

Numer one, yes, they haven't had a raise in years, and they're also fighting against being moved from a four platoon schedule to a three platoon schedule, which will save the city money, but also extend their work hours from 42 to 56. DC is way to busy to have a 24/48 variant. Like others said, if money's really that tight, then now's not the time to worry about logos and patches.

Number two, I was watching the story on Fox5 last night, and it was reported that the employees would have to purchase clothing out of their own pockets if this change is put into effect.

"DC Emergency Services" or something similar would have been a better choice. The average layperson won't know what "FEMS" stands for, so it's a poor choice of an acronym. It sounds like a name for a female softball team or bowling league.

My county says "Fire and Rescue." Alexandria says "Fire and EMS." Nothing wrong with either one. FEMS is an acronym no one has ever heard of, and defeats the purpose of a citizen being able to identify who you are and what your function is. Does FEMS mean federal something or other? Why are the feds in my hallway? Is there a raid going on?

As was pointed out earlier, if your spouse is in cardiac arrest, or your house is on fire, I don't really think you're going to care about what the decals say.

Not going to know what agency is there? You mean the big red truck with guys in turnout gear jumping off and pumping water won't be a clue? How about the big box, where they load people into the back and take them to the hospital? I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the feds to me.

While I think going from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week is a huge change, people need to remember that governments are on the verge of financial collapse. Spending needs to be brough in line with revenue. Period. There is going to be some uncomfortable belt tightening. Oh well. would they prefer that 1/4 of the workforce have their jobs eliminated?

 

[BLSBoy]

Every Ambulance, Engine, Truck, Rescue Squad, Reserve apparatus, Chiefs car, supervisor vehicle, repair truck, etc, etc, etc now has to be taken in from the road, changeover needs to occur OR a company needs to be placed out of service so a freaking sticker can be placed on. Now factor in fuel costs, wear and tear on the vehicle, buying the stickers/decals, the cost in manpower which SHOULD be doing something else more productive. Easily tallies in the 100k mark.
And cry me a friggin river about, "private EMS this, that, and everything else." Private EMS is a SCAB, and should be relegated to interfacility transports ONLY! I was a hospital based paramedic in South Jersey , running my tail off, working bad hours because management could make me do it. I worked nights where in 12hrs, we had 30+ dispatches for service, and was there until 1030am completing my charts. I CHOSE to move, become a Fire Based Paramedic (but not a FireMedic for this dept), take a 50% pay cut, and become union protected.

Best of luck to DCFD.

 

[usalsfyre]

DC EMS sucks. It sucked when it was a third service, it sucks even worse under the FD. The place goes through medical directors like a Hugh Heffner goes through blondes. It is THE shining example of a fire and EMS merger gone wrong. From the FD side, the only thing EMS is good for is to justify budgets. EVERY DC firefighter I have ever spoken with speaks of EMS in derogatory terms. The only FD I've seen that is more anti-EMS is FDNY.

They may not have had an across the board raise in give years, but I can almost garuntee they're still getting step increases. As to being too busy to be on a three platoon system, how many runs would be eliminated by an adaquately staffed EMS division that didn't require first responder engines in every stinking call?

So, if you can't tell, I'm pretty damn unsympathetic to the "plight" of DCFD. They made their own bed, now they can lay in that bad boy.

 

[usalsfyre]

And cry me a friggin river about, "private EMS this, that, and everything else." Private EMS is a SCAB, and should be relegated to interfacility transports ONLY!

I had some respect for you until this. You sir, are the one who needs to shut up. The generalization of FD based EMS as good and private as bad is astounding. Did Marx help you form this opinion? I left a cushy fire-based job voluntarily because the medicine sucked and I was tired of listening to my coworkers bull scat. So I guess I'm a scab? Typical IAFF crap.

I was a hospital based paramedic in South Jersey , running my tail off, working bad hours because management could make me do it. I worked nights where in 12hrs, we had 30+ dispatches for service, and was there until 1030am completing my charts. I CHOSE to move, become a Fire Based Paramedic (but not a FireMedic for this dept), take a 50% pay cut, and become union protected.

Best of luck to DCFD.

Good for you, hopefully your taxpayers are more understanding than most. My feeling is a whole crapload of public employees are about to learn what the real world's like. Good luck with having the benefits you were promised at hire come retirement.

 

[BLSBoy]

Ha! I am not IAFF at all.
Our medicine does not "suck". Take a look at the CIRC study that was just concluded, we were one of the few depts chosen to participate in this international study. Our protocols are among some of the best in the state, are highly progressive, so please, do not tell me our medicine "sucks" until you know where I work, and my protocols. If you like, I can send you the newest version, I just got them in my email today.
I worked private EMS, hospital based EMS, Fire based EMS as a Firefighter/EMT, and now, Fire based EMS as a paramedic only. Out of all of those, the PUBLIC based ones, aka Fire Based, were the ones where we were not working with shoddy equipment, not asked to engage in shady billing practices, we were not told "the customer comes first", when it was plain to all to see the almighty dollar comes first.

I have seen both sides to the coin, and I have worked them both. I can not stand it when privates come in, low ball a bid, take over from the public provider (fire or EMS only), then whine about how high it is to provide care after they placed people out of a job.

And do NOT place blame for the current economic crisis on us. How about we start cutting Medicade, welfare and foreign aid before we start cutting FD, PD, and EMS. I work for 11.50/hr so I have a well funded pension that will care for my needs when I retire.

 

[Shishkabob]

If momey/budget was such a big deal, as mamy FFs claim, then the logical solution is to disband the fire department into volunteer only, or a combo paid/volly, then put the momey saved in to a standalone EMS system, adequately funded and staffed.

 

[usalsfyre]

Funny, my current hospital based job has and has had massively better equipment than my last FD job, or any FD based transport in this area. What I'm saying is you can't generalize public=good, private=bad. Our medicine is light years ahead of my last FD job, but my first FD job was in the cutting edge.

When did the "customer" (i.e. patient) coming first become a bad thing?

The only place I have ever been asked to change a report so it was "easier to bill" had "Fire" in it's name. That's between two FDs and three private providers (one air, two ground).

I'm not blaming public employees for the budget crunch. I do actually hope you pension and other benefits are there come retirement time for you. A whole slew of people don't share my view though, and I would be fully prepared for that.

What REALLY pissed me off though was the description of me as a "scab" when there's not mire than 5 out of 100+ paramedics at my last FD I would trust to take care of my family. Those guys are the "scabs and scrubs" not a dedicated private service medic.

 

[JPINFV]

Every Ambulance, Engine, Truck, Rescue Squad, Reserve apparatus, Chiefs car, supervisor vehicle, repair truck, etc, etc, etc now has to be taken in from the road, changeover needs to occur OR a company needs to be placed out of service so a freaking sticker can be placed on. Now factor in fuel costs, wear and tear on the vehicle, buying the stickers/decals, the cost in manpower which SHOULD be doing something else more productive. Easily tallies in the 100k mark.

Yet we continue to send fire engines needlessly to medical calls hauling around tons of material that are absolutely not needed for a medical call. A simple squad car would be more efficient than putting all of that mileage on an engine or truck. Oh, but we're concerned about a one time trip down to the maintenance facility. That one trip doesn't hold a candle to all of the needless wear and tear put on the vehicles for medical aid calls. Of course this is also something that could be handled when the vehicle is in the shop for routine maintenance anyways.

And cry me a friggin river about, "private EMS this, that, and everything else." Private EMS is a SCAB, and should be relegated to interfacility transports ONLY!

I hope you, say, don't go to a private hospital, well, ever. Also, if private EMS is a scab, I can think of more interesting diseases to describe outfits like DC FEMS compared to 3rd government agencies.

I was a hospital based paramedic in South Jersey , running my tail off, working bad hours because management could make me do it. I worked nights where in 12hrs, we had 30+ dispatches for service, and was there until 1030am completing my charts. I CHOSE to move, become a Fire Based Paramedic (but not a FireMedic for this dept), take a 50% pay cut, and become union protected.

Because fire department ran EMS systems don't suffer from being overloaded with calls?

Best of luck to DC FEMS.

Fixed that for you.


On another note, shouldn't it be DC EMSF? Or, better yet. EMS and Irrigation. After all, how many fire departments call EMS "rescue" instead of its proper name? Irrigation seems to be the appropriate medical word for fire suppression. After all, what is fire suppression if not irrigating objects on fire?

 

[46Young]

As was pointed out earlier, if your spouse is in cardiac arrest, or your house is on fire, I don't really think you're going to care about what the decals say.

Not going to know what agency is there? You mean the big red truck with guys in turnout gear jumping off and pumping water won't be a clue? How about the big box, where they load people into the back and take them to the hospital? I don't know about you, but that doesn't sound like the feds to me.

While I think going from a 42 hour work week to a 56 hour work week is a huge change, people need to remember that governments are on the verge of financial collapse. Spending needs to be brough in line with revenue. Period. There is going to be some uncomfortable belt tightening. Oh well. would they prefer that 1/4 of the workforce have their jobs eliminated?

If the "BRT" is outside, and we're a couple of floors up inside the projects or an apartment complex, they can't see the truck or the bus unless they have x-ray vision. I speak from experience. I worked EMS in NYC for North Shore-LIJ, and also for Jamaica Hosp. The NS uniform was a dark blue shirt, just like the NYPD (we got our uniform from the same place that the NYPD does, and our shirts had a NYPD tag on the inside, so they really were the same shirts), the pants were the same color, and had a lighter blue stripe going down the side. We had an EMT or medic patch on one shoulder, and a small circular hospital patch on the other, nothing on the back. We looked like state troopers. The Jamaica uniforms were similar, but no stripe.

LEO's would get flower pots, bricks, and such dropped down at them from upper floors. The same happened to us. When walking through the halls, we'd get the occasional shoulder thrown into us as we're passing by. They know that if a cop fights back, they have to deal with Al Sharpton, right or wrong. Never mind walking into an apartment, and then a dispute begins. Not everyone read the small print on our uniforms.

DC has no business going to a three platoon schedule, being as busy as they are. I worked down in SC for a busy EMS system, that were 24/48, no kelly's, and it was miserable. We were all worn out. DCFD's union has squashed the last few attempts, thank goodness. If they lay off 25% of their work force and ago to a 56 hour week, what kind of candidates do think they're going to get in the future? There are many well paying depts in the surrounding area, with better working conditions.

As far as unions. for all their faults, there's definitely something to be said for not having to just accept whatever admin wants to do. I've seen what it's like with no union down in the deep south. It's their way or the highway. No thanks. Ours is a good balance, I think. We're in a right to work state, we have no collective bargaining, but our political activity keeps things fair. If you want to rant about unions, there are several threads on this forum where your rants would be more appropriate. There are also numerous threads about fire based EMS, the read headed step child thing, call volume, etc. What you're saying has been repeated here ad nauseum. We don't need yet another fire bashing or union bashing thread.

One more thing, I agree that the DC FF's need to better embrace EMS, but I can understand how many don't want to do EMS there. I don't know of any depts in the area that have seperate fire and EMS. Philly is the closest, then there's NC. Their mindset is that they have to do EMS if they want to be FF's. There's no other way to be a FF, so they're going to take the job. It's like an EMT or medic that really wants to do EMS, but also has only dual role fire and EMS depts. They become FF's do that they can do municipal EMS. Several on this forum have said that they would work for a FD, even do the fire academy and training, if only they don't have to ride on suppression apparatus afterward. FF's more often than not have the same attitude, if you reverse the circumstances. I'm seeing the culture change with the newer hires, but these attitudes still exist. It's more so the older members that have the anti-EMS attitude. The newer, younger members have more often than not were raised seeing fire and EMS as a combined service, so they see the FF's job description including EMS as being normal, and one in the same.

 

[JPINFV]

Ha! I am not IAFF at all.
Our medicine does not "suck". Take a look at the CIRC study that was just concluded, we were one of the few depts chosen to participate in this international study. Our protocols are among some of the best in the state, are highly progressive, so please, do not tell me our medicine "sucks" until you know where I work, and my protocols. If you like, I can send you the newest version, I just got them in my email today.

Yet you're generalizing all private based EMS outfits.

I worked private EMS, hospital based EMS, Fire based EMS as a Firefighter/EMT, and now, Fire based EMS as a paramedic only. Out of all of those, the PUBLIC based ones, aka Fire Based, were the ones where we were not working with shoddy equipment, not asked to engage in shady billing practices, we were not told "the customer comes first", when it was plain to all to see the almighty dollar comes first.

...and that's applicable for every place?

Oh, and "public" is not synonymous with "fire based."

I have seen both sides to the coin, and I have worked them both. I can not stand it when privates come in, low ball a bid, take over from the public provider (fire or EMS only), then whine about how high it is to provide care after they placed people out of a job.

So the public employees are entitled to those jobs for eternity? What about the private service employees that the public services put out of work?

And do NOT place blame for the current economic crisis on us. How about we start cutting Medicade, welfare and foreign aid before we start cutting FD, PD, and EMS. I work for 11.50/hr so I have a well funded pension that will care for my needs when I retire.

The Federal Government shouldn't be funding local services anyways. Division of government! How does it work? The constitution! How does it work?

 

[Shishkabob]

Theres a difference between someone being trusted with 60 different drugs who wants nothing to do with them, and someone being trusted with a charged hose who wants nothing to do with it.