DC Firefighters whine about name change.

medicsb said:
Hmmm, I think I know where you worked and which medic unit you are talking about though I could be wrong. I worked in South Jersey and we had one truck that ran like said (though 30 would be an exaggeration). If you responded to 20 in a shift (which might be more characteristic of a day shift), you treated 4-6 on average and split that with your partner. Sure, on some days you treated more. In my experience, it was uncommon that night shift stayed later than 8 for charting, but pretty common for those on day shift, sure. Also, the equipment there was pretty good. It got beat-up, but that happens when the medic units run 3000-9000 calls in per year. I don't recall there being shady billing practices. After-all they don't bill for refusals (even diabetics that get treated) or for pronouncements (even if you worked them first). I'm sure we would agree on many things being wrong with NJ EMS and many problems with the hospital system in particular that I'm pretty sure you are talking about (the one over the bridge from Philly).

Anyhow, as far as union protection... The past year has shown that many workers are getting the axe despite "union protection". Though I believe in unions, the MICUs in NJ have not cut staffing anywhere. At most, I remember a few had hiring freezes for a period of time. The fire services and municipal EMS services in many places were cut or nearly cut.

Anyhow, I don't really blame you for choosing to move and get a union job at a place that is slower and that has more progressive protocols. But, your blanket statements about fire-based EMS being superior rings hollow when one considers all the different systems and the ones that have been shown to be successful. Also, if you just wanted to be a public worker protected by a union, why not just jump the bridge to Philadelphia and join PFD?

As far as DCFD vs. DCFEMS. I think a department should generally represent what it does in its name. The majority of large city fire departments primarily do EMS yet they do not include it in their name (I don't think "rescue" counts). They should change their names in my opinion. I'm glad DCFD did. They did the right thing. If they don't want to acknowledge that EMS is their primary job, then they should get out of the EMS business.
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Medic 6 in AC, one random weekend, we got SPANKED. All weekend long. 20 was the minimum, 30 was the busiest. I left quarters at 1030, just catching up on charts.
Some nights were slow, others busier. All depends on how good your BLS is, and how restless the natives decide to get.

I don't say that fire based EMS is better, per se. I am lucky enough to be in a pretty progressive area, but the quality of the care all depends on the quality of the provider. PFD and DCFD are prime examples of how to do it wrong. They are also areas where you treat few human beings, and more animals. I challenge any dept, 3rd service, or a tack on to FD or PD to provide better care when you have hundreds of animals calling for all sorts of ailments that are non life threatening during peak service hours. It is nearly impossible to properly staff, fund, stock, and service that many units and still not tax the hell out of the citizens.

I enjoy having a representative with me when there is even so much as a threat of disciplinary action against me, who knows the laws, regulations, and contracts inside and out, so I won't be railroaded. Yes, this protects slugs, and it angers me to no end, but it HAS protected my hide against a very vindictive officer who does not like certain people. I also enjoy a bed at night and when I need a power nap, decent workout equipment so I can keep myself in shape, so I lessen my chances of injuring myself on duty, and stay healthy for my entire career.

I really would LOVE to engage in a NJ EMS debate with everyone who has a stake in it, but they usually turn into a paid vs volly, who is to blame fest, and people get spanked by admins, threads get locked, and feelings get hurt. If we can all try to behave, I think we can try again.
 
BLSBoy said:
Medic 6 in AC, one random weekend, we got SPANKED. All weekend long. 20 was the minimum, 30 was the busiest. I left quarters at 1030, just catching up on charts.
Some nights were slow, others busier. All depends on how good your BLS is, and how restless the natives decide to get.
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My apologies for assuming you had worked where I worked. I can't comment on AC. Medic 43 in Camden runs almost non stop, but they generally see about 25-30% of the patients they're dispatched, which is probably why most medics didn't complain all that much about it. Actually, most medics seemed to enjoy working there.

I don't say that fire based EMS is better, per se. I am lucky enough to be in a pretty progressive area, but the quality of the care all depends on the quality of the provider. PFD and DCFD are prime examples of how to do it wrong. They are also areas where you treat few human beings, and more animals. I challenge any dept, 3rd service, or a tack on to FD or PD to provide better care when you have hundreds of animals calling for all sorts of ailments that are non life threatening during peak service hours. It is nearly impossible to properly staff, fund, stock, and service that many units and still not tax the hell out of the citizens.
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Maybe you were speaking for your area, but you were strongly implying that fire-based EMS is somehow superior. I basically threw PFD out there as a rebuttal. Anyhow, referring to private services as scabs was over-the-top, especially considering that it is part of the IAFF an IAFC agenda to take over EMS anywhere it can by undermining present EM services of all kinds in order to take over. (I know you said you are not IAFF; I was using them as an example.) I don't doubt that there are private services scabbing FDs or other EM services, but there are plenty of FDs hellbent on scabbing EMS. To call private services "scab" creates a "pot calling the kettle black" scenario.


I really would LOVE to engage in a NJ EMS debate with everyone who has a stake in it, but they usually turn into a paid vs volly, who is to blame fest, and people get spanked by admins, threads get locked, and feelings get hurt. If we can all try to behave, I think we can try again.
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I think you and I would agree on most things overall, though I do not think it is as bad many people think (particularly outsiders). And conversely, I don't think it is as good as some "insiders" seem to think (e.g. some EMTs and medics who have never worked outside NJ). But, ultimately, I probably (literally) don't have the time to participate in such a debate. I hardly have time to reply to anything here.
 
I have lived in Chicago most of my life and been to DC and New York. The Chicago Fire Department has said time again its always Tradition unimpeded by progress. I have also worked in Private EMS alongisde Chicago Firefighters who would be just as ticked as the DC Guys are. The Fire Service and EMS are similar yes but you can be a Fire Department and have EMS Service without changing your name. If the budget cuts aren't enough in lowering pay and causing layoffs meaning less manpower heck some cities are closing firehouses ot save money. How is changing thier name saving any money or helping any budgeting crisis be solved. They've been known as DCFD for years just the same as Chicago has been CFD and New York FDNY. Both of those cities have EMS heck Chicago is going fully ALS across the board now Engones, Squads, and Trucks inlcuded not just all the Ambulances and theyre still the CFD. Progress doesn't mean throw out tradition. Tradition is something everyone in the Fire Service takes a lot of pride in, so yeah DCFD has all the right to be pissed and if they gotta chnage their name why shouldn't the cops be changing their's too. The bottom line is Big City Firemen love tradition and when you threaten that you also are thretaening alot of what the fireman stands for. And for those of you who say the Union sare bad and dumb consider this the IAFF IAFC and FOP the public safety unions do more for the citizens than most of the city governments do from St. Baldricks to Fill the Boot for Jerry's Kids and their the voices of the responders when the goevernment doesn't give a hoot about anyone or anything but themselves and their agendas, which lately seem a alot important than the welfare and safety of the public.
 
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ilemtbwantn2bTXEMT-P said:
I have lived in Chicago most of my life and been to DC and New York. The Chicago Fire Department has said time again its always Tradition unimpeded by progress. I have also worked in Private EMS alongisde Chicago Firefighters who would be just as ticked as the DC Guys are. The Fire Service and EMS are similar yes but you can be a Fire Department and have EMS Service without changing your name. If the budget cuts aren't enough in lowering pay and causing layoffs meaning less manpower heck some cities are closing firehouses ot save money. How is changing thier name saving any money or helping any budgeting crisis be solved. They've been known as DCFD for years just the same as Chicago has been CFD and New York FDNY. Both of those cities have EMS heck Chicago is going fully ALS across the board now Engones, Squads, and Trucks inlcuded not just all the Ambulances and theyre still the CFD. Progress doesn't mean throw out tradition. Tradition is something everyone in the Fire Service takes a lot of pride in, so yeah DCFD has all the right to be pissed and if they gotta chnage their name why shouldn't the cops be changing their's too. The bottom line is Big City Firemen love tradition and when you threaten that you also are thretaening alot of what the fireman stands for.
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Firefighters are public servants, nobody gives a crap about what they think of traditions.

Being a firefighter is not a right despite what some think.

I think the issue at hand is that the EMS provided in DC has failed several times in very high profile public ways. The attempt at integrating EMS into the fire mission there is not going well and a name change is part of the strategy to start a stronger push into motivating the rank and file into acceptance.

The purpose of a public servant is to serve the mission the public pays for, not define their own.
 
No no yeah I agree with you in that they need to serve to public. However my point was more that FDNY and CFD get it done perfectly fine heck sometimes they pull off extraodrinary things like CFD with the blizzard, and still get it done whether its Fire or EMS. If it doesn't work well with EMS being part of Fire in DC then don't have it be have a spereate agency for EMS and leave Fire as Fire. Their intertwined and yes we're all public servants but at the same time is it right for us as responders to become some pawn in a spending battle, when we're all mostly there just becuase we wanna help people. Traditions are a huge part of all that though, from the Pipes and Drums at a LODD Funeral to the Maltese Cross to just the words Fire Department and Firefighter even our helmets hold tradition. Like it or not Tradition is what the Fire Service is really known by, the Tradition of being there to help when your house is on fire or your in a car wreck. From the Steam Engines to The Pierces and E-Ones and Ambulances of today that Tradition is one that will never go away.
 
Tradition is not always a good thing. Hundreds of years of tradition unimpeded by progress is a good part of the reason the fire service continues to kill 100+ people a year.
 
usalsfyre said:
Tradition is not always a good thing. Hundreds of years of tradition unimpeded by progress is a good part of the reason the fire service continues to kill 100+ people a year.
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Or its 70 year old volunteers having MIs from being awoken by tones, 18 year old volunteers who drive like morons in their POV and crash. While our LODD yearly totals stay the same, we have also expanded what is known as an LODD. Poor example.
 
BLSBoy said:
Or its 70 year old volunteers having MIs from being awoken by tones, 18 year old volunteers who drive like morons in their POV and crash. While our LODD yearly totals stay the same, we have also expanded what is known as an LODD. Poor example.
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To my knowledge,

MI and vehicle accidents have been the leading causes of firefighter death since my career started in 89.

Unless something has changed dramatically that I haven't heard about, while not directly related to fireground or rescue operations, I think that it speaks volumes about the situational awareness and a culture that does not place a premium on the aweness of the hazards or the safety of all aspects of the job.

In that respect, it is no different from the initial EMS only training of scene safety.
 
When you have poor, rural areas where there is apathy/no time available from younger members of the community, and thats all they can afford, then there is no choice for the community.
I think it is nothing short of a disgrace that we need to rely on those that should be retired and enjoying time with family to respond to emergencies. Until we can get yearly NFPA physicals for every member, every year, we will continue to have an abnormally large number of LODDs.
 
ilemtbwantn2bTXEMT-P said:
Progress doesn't mean throw out tradition. Tradition is something everyone in the Fire Service takes a lot of pride in, so yeah DCFD has all the right to be pissed and if they gotta chnage their name why shouldn't the cops be changing their's too. The bottom line is Big City Firemen love tradition and when you threaten that you also are thretaening alot of what the fireman stands for.
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traditiondemotivationalposter.jpg
 
ilemtbwantn2bTXEMT-P said:
I have lived in Chicago most of my life and been to DC and New York. The Chicago Fire Department has said time again its always Tradition unimpeded by progress. I have also worked in Private EMS alongisde Chicago Firefighters who would be just as ticked as the DC Guys are. The Fire Service and EMS are similar yes but you can be a Fire Department and have EMS Service without changing your name. If the budget cuts aren't enough in lowering pay and causing layoffs meaning less manpower heck some cities are closing firehouses ot save money. How is changing thier name saving any money or helping any budgeting crisis be solved. They've been known as DCFD for years just the same as Chicago has been CFD and New York FDNY. Both of those cities have EMS heck Chicago is going fully ALS across the board now Engones, Squads, and Trucks inlcuded not just all the Ambulances and theyre still the CFD. Progress doesn't mean throw out tradition. Tradition is something everyone in the Fire Service takes a lot of pride in, so yeah DCFD has all the right to be pissed and if they gotta chnage their name why shouldn't the cops be changing their's too. The bottom line is Big City Firemen love tradition and when you threaten that you also are thretaening alot of what the fireman stands for. And for those of you who say the Union sare bad and dumb consider this the IAFF IAFC and FOP the public safety unions do more for the citizens than most of the city governments do from St. Baldricks to Fill the Boot for Jerry's Kids and their the voices of the responders when the goevernment doesn't give a hoot about anyone or anything but themselves and their agendas, which lately seem a alot important than the welfare and safety of the public.
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I don't have any sympathy when it comes to what they're called. If the majority of their work is EMS, then, like I have said, their name should reflect that along with the command structure. I doubt CFD or FDNY will change their name anytime soon, but I think that they should (not that it really matters to them what I think). Also, if CFD (OR DCFEMS or any other all-ALS FD) wants to save money, they'll start with axing the ALS component of their engines and ladders. There is NO EVIDENCE to show that ALS engines in addition to ALS ambulances has ANY impact on morbidity and mortality. ALS engine increase wear and tear on the apparatus, increase cost through wages, increase cost through equipment purchase and maintenance, increase cost through increased requirements for con. ed., increased cost for increased medical oversight, and so on. All the cost without anything to show for it. What has been shown to be beneficial? Training fire fighters to do CPR and use an AED - that's it.

Probably the greatest tradition of FD is "brotherhood". No name change can take that away. The ONLY thing I can think of that should delay a name change is the economy, as it will cost A LOT of money to change all the uniforms and to resticker all of the apparatus. Other than that, there is no reason not to change the name.
 
And with the name change comes a new motto. "DC FEMS: hey! At least we aren't Detroit!"
 
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