Criminal Backgrounds and DMV

ffemt8978 said:
Entirely depends on the specifics of the case, and not the broad terms used in the statutory language to make the law cover as much as possible...which also gived politically motivated prosecutors more reason to upcharge on the indictments.

Just tossing out responses to your scenarios:

Felony Arson - what if the charges were caused by shooting off fireworks that caused something to accidentally burn?

Child Molestation: not going to go there because that subject causes too many people to stop thinking and instead react emotionally.

DUI Manslaughter: I would if the person has been sober with no other problems for the past 24 years.

Armed robbery: same thing goes. If he hasn't been in any other trouble for the past 24 years. Armed robbery is one of those amazingly broad charges that can cover more than people realize.

What is a person to do once they are released? They can't get a job, nor should they be able to live anywhere because they will always be somebody's neighbor.

And I agree with you about the prosoective employer. They're not willing to take on the potential liability, so they're obviously going to pick the one without the record.
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Well put. The hypocrisy is absolutely incredible. There are very few of us who have never done anything that could have ended us up in prison, were luck and circumstances a little different.

"Well, the government labeled him a FELON, so he MUST be a really bad guy forever and ever".
 
SandpitMedic said:
If right and wrong don’t factor into someone’s moral compass, those lasting consequences are meant to be the deterrent.
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The problem is that not being able to discern right and wrong isn't always what gets people into serious trouble. We all have made questionable choices. Most of us are lucky enough that the consequences of those choices were not that serious, and/or we just didn't get caught. Some people have worse luck.
 
SandpitMedic said:
There are a lot of BS laws and BS penalties on the books, but a violent felony? That’s just one of those mistakes you can’t make, nor should people make excuses for. Does it mean that one is a terrible person- no, of course not. Although, some actions have lasting consequences.

If right and wrong don’t factor into someone’s moral compass, those lasting consequences are meant to be the deterrent.
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I actually agree with you about the public trust aspect of this, but would like to remind you that what the government considers a "voiolent felony" may not be violent.

Scenario: you and your buddy go to the gas station for a snack. He runs in to get the items while you wait in the car around the corner of the building because that is where the available parking is. He decides to swipe the item instead of paying for it and runs out the door, running into and knocking down an old lady who breaks her hip. He gets in the car and you drive away, unaware of what has transpired in the store out of your sight. Congratulations, you are now a violent felon too!!!

Don't forget that our government (specifically the BATFE and DEA) have a history of setting up sting operations where an undercover informant helps them convince and then assists some person into robbing a drug house or a bunch of guns. Except there are no drugs or guns in the fake house...only the cops waiting to arrest them The entire basis of the crime is fictional, yet that fictional basis is used to determine what crimes the suspect is charged with.

My point is this: when you hear the term "violent felony", don't assume that it is a truly violent crime without learning the details. Otherwise all you're doing is getting some exercise by jumping to conclusions.
 
Carlos Danger said:
We all have made questionable choices. Most of us are lucky enough that the consequences of those choices were not that serious, and/or we just didn't get caught. Some people have worse luck.
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So you're saying we are all horrible people, we all commit crimes, and the lucky ones never got caught? I call BS on that statement. I have never murdered someone. never committed a robbery using a firearm. never molested a child. never set a building on fire. The reason I was never caught doing those things is that I never did them in the first place. if you don't commit the crime, you can't get caught. Has nothing to do with luck.

Let me ask you a question @Carlos Danger: would you hire a CRNA, or accept a person into a CRNA education program (I don't know if they run background checks on prospective students), if they had been fired, criminally charged and convicted 10 years ago for stealing narcotics from their paramedic agency?

And while I will not pretend to be a saint, I think it's unfair to automatically assume everyone is a sinner, and because you think everyone is a sinner, there shouldn't be any long term consequences for those who commit violent crimes.
SandpitMedic said:
Here’s the thing. We are in a position of public trust- like it or not. Once you’ve stained that (as someone made plenty of examples of earlier) you forfeit certain rights and limit your options for your future.
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Bingo! like it or not, as a position of public trust, we are held to a higher standard. If you accept violent felons, and the public learns of it, doesn't that mean every ambulance driver is a felon until proven otherwise? Sure, they might be awesome people, great providers, smell nice, etc, but when it comes to budget time, does the city council want to give more money to a bunch of convicted felons? especially when the perception (whether accurate or not) is that the public trust agency is composed of violent felons?
ffemt8978 said:
Scenario: you and your buddy go to the gas station for a snack. He runs in to get the items while you wait in the car around the corner of the building because that is where the available parking is. He decides to swipe the item instead of paying for it and runs out the door, running into and knocking down an old lady who breaks her hip. He gets in the car and you drive away, unaware of what has transpired in the store out of your sight. Congratulations, you are now a violent felon too!!!
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Do you honestly think that the majority of violent felons are simply people who were along for the ride, and didn't know a crime had occurred? or your example is the extreme rarity?
 
DrParasite said:
So you're saying we are all horrible people, we all commit crimes, and the lucky ones never got caught? I call BS on that statement. I have never murdered someone. never committed a robbery using a firearm. never molested a child. never set a building on fire. The reason I was never caught doing those things is that I never did them in the first place. if you don't commit the crime, you can't get caught. Has nothing to do with luck.
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You sure about that? https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842

Do you honestly think that the majority of violent felons are simply people who were along for the ride, and didn't know a crime had occurred? or your example is the extreme rarity?
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Never said that. Was using it as an example of how things may not always be what they appear, and the only way for you to know for sure is to look into it and not make an assumption based upon two words put together. The vast majority of people charged and convicted of violent felonies deserve it, but not all of them.

Let me put it into medical terms. Frequent flier complaining if non-specific back pain. Do you assume they are drug seeking or do you look into it by performing an assessment?

The public trust aspect is the part I agree with, and frankly it should be enough.
 
So essentially every felon gets a life sentence? Steal a tv when you’re 17, done. Break into a friends house for a prank but he doesn’t think it’s funny, done. Get in a drunken bar fight in college and knock someone out, done.

What’s the point of the length of prison sentences being determined in order to pay your debt to society when you apparently never actually reach the point of completely paying your debt to society..

I’m sure we’ve not all committed felonies (although I think a lot of you would be surprised how easy it is to rise to a felony charge), but I guarantee you that everyone here has done things that preclude you from employment or would look really bad on the news if they were uncovered.
 
ffemt8978 said:
You sure about that? https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842
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from the author's own words (the person who literally wrote the book on 3 felonies a day, not the WSJ reporter who wrote the article on it):
The “three felonies a day” is really a figure of speech, hardly an exact count. People who are very active in certain fields likely commit more than three arguable federal felonies a day. People who are less active in life and in commerce probably commit fewer. I would imagine that lawyers, accountants, and securities dealers commit more, while fruit-stand vendors commit fewer. But my point was that an active member of our society goes about his or her busy workday not realizing the potential for committing arguable federal felonies in a wide variety of business and personal endeavors on a typical day.
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as per http://ulrichboser.com/how-many-felonies-did-you-commit-today-an-interview-with-harvey-silverglate/

I also use a quote from https://www.econlib.org/three-felonies-a-day/ about the book, and the claim
The title is horrible. I read through most of the book. True, I skimmed some pages but I looked at every page. Nowhere could I find backup for the book’s title.

Why do I bother making this point? Because at least once a month I see someone on Facebook or elsewhere claim, referencing Silverglate’s book, that the average American commits three felonies a day. It might be true. I doubt that it’s true. I would bet the number is more like three felonies a month. That in itself is horrendous. But that doesn’t justify wildly exaggerating the problem.
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So yes, I'm sure I haven't committed the felonies that I listed previously.

And there is a difference between a conviction for a felony (which, as you state, is more of a legal definition than a realistic one) and a conviction for a VIOLENT felony.

Do I think being convicted of a felony should ruin your life, and destroy your future? No. Do I think committing a violent felony should prevent you from obtaining employment in a position that requires public trust? absolutely.
 
DrParasite said:
from the author's own words (the person who literally wrote the book on 3 felonies a day, not the WSJ reporter who wrote the article on it):as per http://ulrichboser.com/how-many-felonies-did-you-commit-today-an-interview-with-harvey-silverglate/

I also use a quote from https://www.econlib.org/three-felonies-a-day/ about the book, and the claim
So yes, I'm sure I haven't committed the felonies that I listed previously.

And there is a difference between a conviction for a felony (which, as you state, is more of a legal definition than a realistic one) and a conviction for a VIOLENT felony.

Do I think being convicted of a felony should ruin your life, and destroy your future? No. Do I think committing a violent felony should prevent you from obtaining employment in a position that requires public trust? absolutely.
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The OP said his crime was burglary. I'm not sure how or why he feels it was classified as a "violent felony" because he doesn't want to share the details (and that's fine).

But several of you keep throwing around "violent felony" as if we know the story at all.
 
There are a lot of good points here, but there are a lot of long drawn out posts of people talking in circles.

Yes, some felony charges are completely bogus. Yes, many people violate vague laws everyday.
Yes, some laws charge people who just happen to be in the wrong place or unlucky
Yes, there are too many laws.

And yes, we need reform for some legal standards. However, the majority of “violent felons” are not cake decorators who dropped a safety pin on someone’s foot.

Come on gang. We’re all saying the same thing. No one thinks someone who pirated a movie once should be a lifetime felon. When we’re talking felonies with regard to eligibility for public service we’re talking crimes of liars, cheaters, abusers, thieves, drug dealers, con artists, and violent people, etc. These are people who cannot be in positions of public trust.

The arguing of the semantics of the term “felony” is wasting bandwidth. Sometimes good people do bad things and sometimes bad things happen to good people. Giving a burglar the keys to the rig, a patch, and the public trust that comes with that is not the answer, and is unfortunately a risk to a stain on all of us.
 
DrParasite said:
I have never murdered someone. never committed a robbery using a firearm. never molested a child. never set a building on fire.
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Except there’s that pesky reality that one need not necessarily do any of those things to have a record that makes it unnecessarily difficult to act as a productive member of society for the rest of their life.

That’s the whole point here.
 
Carlos Danger said:
Except there’s that pesky reality that one need not necessarily do any of those things to have a record that makes it unnecessarily difficult to act as a productive member of society for the rest of their life.

That’s the whole point here.
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You have a most valid point. You keep making it. But you guys are talking over each other’s heads now.

Not all felonies are legitimate because some government said so, but we are talking violent and grossly dishonest folks here not the outliers who got dinged hard for little reason.
 
I missed the part where the OP said he had committed a violent felony.

FelonaEMT said:
Yes you can get NREMT card and be certified in CA ! JS I am both thank you and my felony was considered a violent felony!
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I think this person and the OP have been conflated.
 
ffemt8978 said:
I actually agree with you about the public trust aspect of this, but would like to remind you that what the government considers a "violent felony" may not be violent.
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Sometimes what you think should be "violent felony" is determined by the government to no longer be a "violent felony" and instead is reclassified as a "non-violent" felony.
 
You guys "know" me, several of you know me personally. Many of you know the things I have done and places I have been. Even managed to obtain Secret Clearance both US and NATO for past work. Have worked in classified areas abroad. Have been a paramedic x 26 years, now a ER RN. Have taught at several community colleges for Paramedic and EMT. This is just a brief list of my professional accomplishments.

<---- Convicted Felon.

Let that sink in.
 
akflightmedic said:
You guys "know" me, several of you know me personally. Many of you know the things I have done and places I have been. Even managed to obtain Secret Clearance both US and NATO for past work. Have worked in classified areas abroad. Have been a paramedic x 26 years, now a ER RN. Have taught at several community colleges for Paramedic and EMT. This is just a brief list of my professional accomplishments.

<---- Convicted Felon.

Let that sink in.
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I appreciate you sharing that. How do you feel about violent felons serving as paramedics?
 
mgr22 said:
I appreciate you sharing that. How do you feel about violent felons serving as paramedics?
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I think everyone deserves opportunity to prove themselves a second time. Mistakes and poor judgement affect us all at one time or another on varying levels.
Should it become a life sentence even after doing “your time”, whatever that consists of? No.
We are a very punitive culture and take little effort in trying to rehab or educate those who lack skills and knowledge and end up in trouble with the law. Why?
Its more profitable to not rehab criminals. Other nations of a western mindset do far better than us when it comes to how to handle those who have violated the law. And the stuff I have been involved in...my white skin helped tremendously.
 
Like many have said, we have all done things that we didn’t get caught for, and in some cases we did as described above.

I am in camp second chances for many more things than not. But I maintain there are certain crimes that should preclude one from bearing the public trust - murder, rape, kidnapping, etc. The big ones.

My mother has a felony from 30 years ago. Does that mean she was or is a terrible person? No. It also didn’t stop her from pursuing a decent life, albeit not in EMS.
 
akflightmedic said:
I think everyone deserves opportunity to prove themselves a second time. Mistakes and poor judgement affect us all at one time or another on varying levels.
Should it become a life sentence even after doing “your time”, whatever that consists of? No.
We are a very punitive culture and take little effort in trying to rehab or educate those who lack skills and knowledge and end up in trouble with the law.
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This.
You continue to hit the nail on the head.
 
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