COVID VACCINE - The Megathread

[ffemt8978]

US panel backs COVID-19 boosters only for seniors, high-risk

An influential federal advisory panel has overwhelmingly rejected a plan to give Pfizer booster shots against COVID-19 to most Americans, but it endorsed the extra doses for those who are 65 or older or run a high risk of severe disease.

apnews.com

So much for boosters for everyone...this plan seems like a more realistic approach.

 

[Summit]

Not at all "so much for that idea" but much more of a "please provide sufficient safety evidence for the population in question..."
Certain groups: risk benefit confirmed
Whole population: needs more data

This is a reasonable approach IMHO: Boost high risk groups and do more studies.

 

[ffemt8978]

If this administration is going to defer to the experts like they said they would, then it will be pretty difficult to overcome this setback.

 

[StCEMT]

Not at all "so much for that idea" but much more of a "please provide sufficient safety evidence for the population in question..."
Certain groups: risk benefit confirmed
Whole population: needs more data

This is a reasonable approach IMHO: Boost high risk groups and do more studies.

Unfortunately this is still gonna be viewed as a "well if the vaccine works, why is this necessary?"

 

[Summit]

Unfortunately this is still gonna be viewed as a "well if the vaccine works, why is this necessary?"

One could observe that HepB or HPV vaccines need 3 doses, or tdap needs decadal boosts... But the hesitant are not interested in that and the government is poor at best when it comes to vaccine messaging.

 

[Summit]

One could observe that HepB or HPV vaccines need 3 doses, or tdap needs decadal boosts... But the hesitant are not interested in that and the government is poor at best when it comes to vaccine messaging.

Meant to add Hib and Polio to that list but the edit didn't save

 

[Kavsuvb]

Here's why some people in the FED's are hesitant about the COVID Vaccine

PART 1: Federal Govt HHS Whistleblower Goes Public With Secret Recordings "Vaccine is Full of Sh*t"​

 

[FiremanMike]

There's political and personal reasons have concerns or reservations, but at this point anyone who is holding onto the notion that "the vaccine is full of ****" or "covid isn't that dangerous" is really making a strenuous effort to be an idiot.

There's really no nicer way to say that.

 

[DrParasite]

There's political and personal reasons have concerns or reservations, but at this point anyone who is holding onto the notion that "the vaccine is full of ****" or "covid isn't that dangerous" is really making a strenuous effort to be an idiot.

There's really no nicer way to say that.

hold on... no one is saying covid isn't dangerous; what many (including myself) are saying is covid isn't dangerous to me.

No one is disputing that covid is very dangerous to the elderly. or the immunocompromised. or those with multiple comorbidities

I, as a moderately healthy 30something, am at low risk of dying from covid. my son, who is 4, is an even lower risk. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen (and I do hope it doesn't, and read in the news that kids and young people have died from the disease), but I refuse to live in fear and lock myself in my house for the next two years over something that, based on the numbers, isn't very dangerous (ie, life-threatening) to me. You can imply that I'm an idiot all you, but that conclusion is in line with the scientific data as reported by the CDC.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023 | Statista

Between the beginning of January 2020 and June 14, 2023, of the 1,134,641 deaths caused by COVID-19 in the United States, around 307,169 had occurred among those aged 85 years and older.

www.statista.com

I have known several people who caught covid (healthcare workers pre-vaccination) and are now back to work. Some were only mildly symptomatic, but most agreed that it sucked. No one died, but I won't deny that many elderly people did die in nursing homes in NJ and NY (see my previous statement about who COVID is dangerous to).

Implying that a person is an idiot because of their personal or political beliefs is not a good way to persuade someone to agree with you, especially when their beliefs are more in line with the scientific data than yours are.

As for the anti-vaxxers, and those who think that the vaccine is just a way for bill gates to put a microchip in you... I can't help you there, they are crazy science deniers and are a form of natural selection.

 

[FiremanMike]

hold on... no one is saying covid isn't dangerous; what many (including myself) are saying is covid isn't dangerous to me.

No one is disputing that covid is very dangerous to the elderly. or the immunocompromised. or those with multiple comorbidities

I, as a moderately healthy 30something, am at low risk of dying from covid. my son, who is 4, is an even lower risk. That doesn't mean it can't or won't happen (and I do hope it doesn't, and read in the news that kids and young people have died from the disease), but I refuse to live in fear and lock myself in my house for the next two years over something that, based on the numbers, isn't very dangerous (ie, life-threatening) to me. You can imply that I'm an idiot all you, but that conclusion is in line with the scientific data as reported by the CDC.

Provisional COVID-19 Deaths by Sex and Age | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

data.cdc.gov

COVID-19 deaths by age U.S. 2023 | Statista

Between the beginning of January 2020 and June 14, 2023, of the 1,134,641 deaths caused by COVID-19 in the United States, around 307,169 had occurred among those aged 85 years and older.

www.statista.com

I have known several people who caught covid (healthcare workers pre-vaccination) and are now back to work. Some were only mildly symptomatic, but most agreed that it sucked. No one died, but I won't deny that many elderly people did die in nursing homes in NJ and NY (see my previous statement about who COVID is dangerous to).

Implying that a person is an idiot because of their personal or political beliefs is not a good way to persuade someone to agree with you, especially when their beliefs are more in line with the scientific data than yours are.

As for the anti-vaxxers, and those who think that the vaccine is just a way for bill gates to put a microchip in you... I can't help you there, they are crazy science deniers and are a form of natural selection.

I was referencing the post above mine, as well as about 10% of my Facebook feed..

Wasn’t attacking you..

 

[DrParasite]

I understand that wasn't your intent, but if you re-read your post, you were attacking people who don't agree with you.

And while Project Veritas is one of the less reliable sources of information on the internet (similar to MSNBC and to a lesser extent CNN) due to their selective editing and manipulation of facts, they do have a following and are sometimes correct, just like all news sources of questionable reputation

Unfortunately, the news media and social media on both sides is manipulating the data, so much if what the public hears is half truths, fear mongered, and agenda driven, and not always based on factual evidence. and the messaging from the federal government, and from the leaders of the federal health agencies, seems to change based on the whim of the administration, which isn't helping the situation.

 

[FiremanMike]

I understand that wasn't your intent, but if you re-read your post, you were attacking people who don't agree with you.

And while Project Veritas is one of the less reliable sources of information on the internet (similar to MSNBC and to a lesser extent CNN) due to their selective editing and manipulation of facts, they do have a following and are sometimes correct, just like all news sources of questionable reputation

Unfortunately, the news media and social media on both sides is manipulating the data, so much if what the public hears is half truths, fear mongered, and agenda driven, and not always based on factual evidence. and the messaging from the federal government, and from the leaders of the federal health agencies, seems to change based on the whim of the administration, which isn't helping the situation.

I actually started my statement off by saying reservations and questions are understandable, but I maintain that we're nearly 2 years in and anyone who continues to insist that this is essentially a hoax is an idiot.

 

[Kevinf]

Maybe we should be implying that refusing a free, safe, effective vaccine to control an extremely virulent plague is idiotic. Vaccinations are required for many things, but for some reason this particular vaccine is a step too far versus the Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Varicella, Hepatitis, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis, and Influenza vaccines. Not to mention the Smallpox and Polio vaccines that we don't even need to worry about anymore.

Also that masking and social distancing turned out to be EXTREMELY effective at reducing the spread of diseases such as Covid and Influenza, so a vaccinated society that masks up has an excellent chance of returning to normal and not doing that is a statement that you are ok with the pandemic becoming endemic and threatening others in society that aren't as fortunate as you. I'd really prefer not to see Covid resurgences every year and for my older family members to have a chance.

But muh freedumb! They can't force me to get a free, safe, effective vaccine! This is AMERICA and I have RIGHTS!

 

[ffemt8978]

I actually started my statement off by saying reservations and questions are understandable, but I maintain that we're nearly 2 years in and anyone who continues to insist that this is essentially a hoax is an idiot.

Great tactic to convince people to get vaccinated...

Two years in of experts and governments constantly changing their messages about the severity of the disease, about flattening the curve, about herd immunity, about how vaccines would mean the return to normal life. Two years into everyone on the planet having their lives turned upside down.

There are idiots on both sides of this issue. Your opinion that anyone who thinks this is a hoax is an idiot is just as valid as those who think that everyone who believes every word from experts or governments is an idiot given the historical track record. Calling them names, no matter how much you feel they deserve it, does nothing to resolve the problems.

 

[ffemt8978]

Maybe we should be implying that refusing a free, safe, effective vaccine to control an extremely virulent plague is idiotic. Vaccinations are required for many things, but for some reason this particular vaccine is a step too far versus the Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Varicella, Hepatitis, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Pertussis, and Influenza vaccines. Not to mention the Smallpox and Polio vaccines that we don't even need to worry about anymore.

Also that masking and social distancing turned out to be EXTREMELY effective at reducing the spread of diseases such as Covid and Influenza, so a vaccinated society that masks up has an excellent chance of returning to normal and not doing that is a statement that you are ok with the pandemic becoming endemic and threatening others in society that aren't as fortunate as you. I'd really prefer not to see Covid resurgences every year and for my older family members to have a chance.

But muh freedumb! They can't force me to get a free, safe, effective vaccine! This is AMERICA and I have RIGHTS!

How many of those vaccines were developed and then mandated with two years? Some people may be objecting to simply how fast this mandate came about. The Influnlenza vaccine is not being mandated for everyone in the country, nor is my employer basing my continued employment on getting it. That's what makes this vaccine different. Never before has the government tried to tie continued employment to a vaccine by making employers mandate it.

So your definition of a 'normal' society is now one where everyone wears masks and keeps at least six feet away from each other from now on?

And it's not a feee vaccine by any means. It is being paid for by tax money, which comes from somewhere.

 

[StCEMT]

Great tactic to convince people to get vaccinated...

Two years in of experts and governments constantly changing their messages about the severity of the disease, about flattening the curve, about herd immunity, about how vaccines would mean the return to normal life. Two years into everyone on the planet having their lives turned upside down.

There are idiots on both sides of this issue. Your opinion that anyone who thinks this is a hoax is an idiot is just as valid as those who think that everyone who believes every word from experts or governments is an idiot given the historical track record. Calling them names, no matter how much you feel they deserve it, does nothing to resolve the problems.

Is it realy reasonable to expect the CDC and related folks to be 100% right though? Part of the scientific process involves being wrong sometimes and adjusting course with the best info available. That's not unreasonable for a new virus. More information gives more accuracy, but it's easy to criticize that with hindsight.

And maybe it's not the best way to win over anyone, but it's foolish to think all opinions are equal. My opinion is not more valid than an Attending when it comes to basically anything medical. We aren't in the same level in the slightest. Just because I may have opinion doesn't mean it's even remotely equal, valid, or credible. People need to realize just because they think something, doesn't mean it's worth listening to.

 

[FiremanMike]

Great tactic to convince people to get vaccinated...

Two years in of experts and governments constantly changing their messages about the severity of the disease, about flattening the curve, about herd immunity, about how vaccines would mean the return to normal life. Two years into everyone on the planet having their lives turned upside down.

There are idiots on both sides of this issue. Your opinion that anyone who thinks this is a hoax is an idiot is just as valid as those who think that everyone who believes every word from experts or governments is an idiot given the historical track record. Calling them names, no matter how much you feel they deserve it, does nothing to resolve the problems.

My opinion is based in objective facts that we can see in front of us. People are dying, people suffering from long term deficits, and most recently, that vaccinated people who do become infected have mild symptoms and that the overwhelming majority of the people who are becoming severely ill due to delta are unvaccinated.

People who are choosing to ignore this are doing so intentionally at this point. It is intellectual dishonesty to say this is a hoax.

As to your point regarding mandatory flu shots..

We need to stop trying to compare this virus and the response to the virus to the flu. Influenza was first discovered in the 1400s with a significantly lower population density. The human race has had 600 years of developing immune responses created by both live infection and a variety of vaccines developed over the course of history. Our bodies have the ability to better fight off the flu because we have been exposed to it significantly more than covid.

 

[ffemt8978]

Is it realy reasonable to expect the CDC and related folks to be 100% right though? Part of the scientific process involves being wrong sometimes and adjusting course with the best info available. That's not unreasonable for a new virus. More information gives more accuracy, but it's easy to criticize that with hindsight.

And maybe it's not the best way to win over anyone, but it's foolish to think all opinions are equal. My opinion is not more valid than an Attending when it comes to basically anything medical. We aren't in the same level in the slightest. Just because I may have opinion doesn't mean it's even remotely equal, valid, or credible. People need to realize just because they think something, doesn't mean it's worth listening to.

Your second paragraph is spot on, so let's turn to your first paragraph instead.

Given that the scientific process is ongoing as better info becomes available, wouldn't it then be reasonable to await further info before making globe changing decisions that affect billions of people so you don't have to repeatedly change your recommendations mid-stream? Part of the problem we now face is the distrust of official sources because they lept to the nuclear option of global shutdown to flatten the curve, telling everyone it would only be a couple of weeks. Those couple of weeks have lasted two years with no end in sight.

 

[FiremanMike]

 

[ffemt8978]

My opinion is based in objective facts that we can see in front of us. People are dying, people suffering from long term deficits, and most recently, that vaccinated people who do become infected have mild symptoms and that the overwhelming majority of the people who are becoming severely ill due to delta are unvaccinated.

People who are choosing to ignore this are doing so intentionally at this point. It is intellectual dishonesty to say this is a hoax.

As to your point regarding mandatory flu shots..

We need to stop trying to compare this virus and the response to the virus to the flu. Influenza was first discovered in the 1400s with a significantly lower population density. The human race has had 600 years of developing immune responses created by both live infection and a variety of vaccines developed over the course of history. Our bodies have the ability to better fight off the flu because we have been exposed to it significantly more than covid.

You're the one that brought up the Influenza vaccine, I just responded to it. If you're going to use it as a basis to support mandating Covid vaccinations, then others are allowed to use it to point out the differences.