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OP
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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Perfectly said.
Concealed Carry
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Perfectly said.
I have another question to pose to everyone then: what if your unconscious patient had a tag around his neck - just like a med alert - that said he was a CCW permit holder and where his weapon was? Would that change your decision?
I guess for me what it comes down to is that when my patient is conscious, I expect them to notify me of a weapon on their person, or I may feel unsafe. If my patient is unresponsive, however, that matter becomes much more complicated.
I guess for me what it comes down to is that when my patient is conscious, I expect them to notify me of a weapon on their person, or I may feel unsafe. If my patient is unresponsive, however, that matter becomes much more complicated.
Summit
Critical Crazy
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What planet do you reside on and may I borrow your spaceship to come visit?
I never said anyone DOES it. I sure as hell wouldn't, and I'll be getting my CCW as soon as I'm legally able.
I just said asked if it would it make a difference.
Hypothetically speaking.
The idea was to emphasize the fact that there isn't any way for an unresponsive patient to say "hey, I'm carrying, it's in an ankle holster on my right leg, and yea, I'll keep my hands away."
You're a little early to borrow the spaceship though, they aren't done building it. I'll let you know when I launch
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firecoins
IFT Puppet
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If you see they have a weapon, it isn't concealed too well if concealed at all.
Is the patient threatening you?
Leave the scene until the weapon is secure.
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medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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It is definitely something to think about.
It wouldn't be because of being opposed to CCW, which is something that people need to understand. Rather, it would be an EMT safety thing.
OP
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medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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I would tend to disagree. With an unresponsive patient, you can more easily gain control of their weapon or have PD do the same.
Summit
Critical Crazy
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You're a little early to borrow the spaceship though, they aren't done building it. I'll let you know when I launch
But you are saying that I can borrow it when it is done?
Mountain Res-Q
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What? I have a Tag around my neck that reads: "My name is _____. I am an Aquarius that likes long walks on the beach and throwing rocks at rollerbladers. My shoes are double knotted and I only wear wool socks. Once in the third grade I built a rocket. My favorite color is Red and I want to be a mime when I grow up. I have a 9mm on my rightt hip and a grenade under my left arm. Oh, and even though you will never need to know this fact, I do have a history of Diabetes and am allergic to penicillin. But more to the point, I was born on a cold winter day in a hospital that is now closed... hey, once they produced perfection, the Hospital had no other goals to reach. For a good time call 555-1234."
What is so odd about that? Note: only about 50% of what I said there is true... you figure out what half... LOL
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What they all said. If LEOs are there, the gun goes to them. If they're not, I'll make it safe and pass it along to hospital security. Oddly enough, I've never actually had this happen.
Ditto. Never thought about it from the patient's view. If I were mentally stable, had a gun, and EMS responded, I'd probably ask them to have local PD hold it if I couldn't put it somewhere safe myself. Can't imagine PD wouldn't give it back when they're known to advise local residents to get them in the first place...
h34r:
Ditto. Never thought about it from the patient's view. If I were mentally stable, had a gun, and EMS responded, I'd probably ask them to have local PD hold it if I couldn't put it somewhere safe myself. Can't imagine PD wouldn't give it back when they're known to advise local residents to get them in the first place...
h34r:Neglect....
Wow... I did not read all of the post, but I will comment on the statement:
"Me, personally, I would not treat them until they either relinquish the weapon to LE, or I verify that they do not have a weapon on them. The only time I would treat somebody with a weapon would be if they were another public servant (LE, etc)."
In my state, it is perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon with a permint, but it is NOT legal or ethical to deny EMS to a patient. I would think that you, your company and your municipailty would have your butt's sued if you denied care because a person was legally carrying a weapon.
Am I wrong?
I will tell you I fall in the "I carry, but not at work or when vollying for my department or any other time that it is not allowed or makes people/businesses I care about uncomfortable...." so it is not that I am fanatical in either direction. But, I think that failing to provide care when the patient is not breaking any laws is illegal and unethical.
Wow... I did not read all of the post, but I will comment on the statement:
"Me, personally, I would not treat them until they either relinquish the weapon to LE, or I verify that they do not have a weapon on them. The only time I would treat somebody with a weapon would be if they were another public servant (LE, etc)."
In my state, it is perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon with a permint, but it is NOT legal or ethical to deny EMS to a patient. I would think that you, your company and your municipailty would have your butt's sued if you denied care because a person was legally carrying a weapon.
Am I wrong?
I will tell you I fall in the "I carry, but not at work or when vollying for my department or any other time that it is not allowed or makes people/businesses I care about uncomfortable...." so it is not that I am fanatical in either direction. But, I think that failing to provide care when the patient is not breaking any laws is illegal and unethical.
reaper
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You have to realize that most of these comments are from people that have never worked on an ambulance before. They are all hypothetical answers. Real life is a different story.
I would think that all states with a CCW permit system would train their staff on how to unload and make secure a handgun. That way when Joe public, who has done nothing wrong but is in need of care will be cared for like every other citizen and his personal belongings will be made secure like his wallet, watch and any other thing he carries.
So you'd think, but you'd be wrong...
I know. Our department doesn't, I just checked. I guess for me, it would depend on the situation. A gun, in a holster is no threat to me or anyone else. If the patient were home, or had another way of securing the weapon I would give him/her that option, if they were out when the injury/illness happened I would pass the info on to the hospital to deal with but I would not allow the presence of a legally carried firearm prevent me from doing my duty.
I really wish they would devote 5 minutes of basic class to securing guns, especially in areas where they're really common. At one of my services, I think they just assume that someone will know what to do, which is probably correct but still seems like an oversight. At another, I could easily see crews with nobody knowing what to do.
There was an episode of a TV show called "Best Defense" where they did just that. They covered revolvers, semi-striker fired and semi-external hammer pistols. The premise of the show was how to make the gun ready for self defense, but the episode would be just as useful on making the gun safe.
If there were any interest, I could try to do a video or pictorial on how to unload the various types of weapons you may encounter. I have never done anything like that, but I do have one of every "type" of pistol. I am sure this wheel has been invented already though.
If there were any interest, I could try to do a video or pictorial on how to unload the various types of weapons you may encounter. I have never done anything like that, but I do have one of every "type" of pistol. I am sure this wheel has been invented already though.
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