Concealed Carry

[Seaglass]

If there were any interest, I could try to do a video or pictorial on how to unload the various types of weapons you may encounter. I have never done anything like that, but I do have one of every "type" of pistol. I am sure this wheel has been invented already though.

I just googled "how to unload a pistol" and found a video for pretty much any type anyone could want. I think I'll have a quiet word with my training officer at the one service where nobody knows about guns. I doubt he'll go for it, but it can't really hurt to suggest.

 

[mcdonl]

Simple way to secure a gun:

1. Do not touch the trigger
2. Remove the source of ammunition
3. Cycle the bolt, watch for round to escape
4. Inspect chamber, verifying there is no round in
5. Secure the source of ammunition
6. Move the gun away from the person

PRIOR TO DOING THAT... know the 3 rules.

1 - All guns are loaded, treat them as such.
2 - Do not point the gun at anything or anyone you do not want to destroy.
3 - NEVER PUT YOUR FINGER IN THE TRIGGER GUARD unless you are shooting the gun, and for the purposes of an EMT that would be never.

 

[JPINFV]

I would think that all states with a CCW permit system would train their staff on how to unload and make secure a handgun. That way when Joe public, who has done nothing wrong but is in need of care will be cared for like every other citizen and his personal belongings will be made secure like his wallet, watch and any other thing he carries.

The problem with this is that I wouldn't want someone with a 1 hour class touching fire arms during an emergency. If you have someone on the crew who's familiar, and comfortable with fire arms, then sure, secure the fire arm. How ever, I wouldn't want to be around the person who's first time handling a fire arm outside of class was during an emergency, even if the handling is done just to secure the fire arm.

 

[JPINFV]

PRIOR TO DOING THAT... know the 3 rules.

1 - All guns are loaded, treat them as such.
2 - Do not point the gun at anything or anyone you do not want to destroy.
3 - NEVER PUT YOUR FINGER IN THE TRIGGER GUARD unless you are shooting the gun, and for the purposes of an EMT that would be never.

... In addition to point 2...
4. Be sure of your target and what's behind it (yes, you aren't shooting it, but what ever you're point it at is your 'target').

 

[bunkie]

You can tell what part of the country people live in by their responses to this thread.

Really? How so?

 

[JPINFV]

You can tell what part of the country people live in by their responses to this thread.

Ok... without peeking, where do I live?

 

[Summit]

In most states it is not "Illegal to carry into a hospital if you have a carry permit/license.....People get the idea from the no gun symbol on the door that it is illegal in most places it isnt, the facility just does not want you there with it.....Now saying that if they ask that you leave or secure your weapon you must or be charged with criminal trespass.

If you knowingly bring a patient into the hospital with a gun, the hospital is going to do everything they can to get you fired.

 

[spinnakr]

I would tend to disagree. With an unresponsive patient, you can more easily gain control of their weapon or have PD do the same.

That's part of my point. It becomes more complicated than the simple expectation that the patient notify me of the weapon. In this case it becomes a question of (assuming LE is NOT on-scene) what to do with the weapon, who to notify, etc etc etc.

But you are saying that I can borrow it when it is done?

I mean, I don't know about borrow, I wouldn't technically OWN it... Several million might buy you a trip though...

 

[thatJeffguy]

Okay, this appears to me to be either a misunderstanding of your role as a provider, or a lack of clarification from your instructors regarding what makes a scene unsafe. The presence of a weapon does not make anything particularly unsafe, the entirety of the circumstance makes the scene safe or unsafe.

YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN!

Here @ EMTLIFE.com, we're all about fearing inanimate objects! I bet if that handgun got in the ambulance, every EMS responder would be possessed by it's demonic power and start killing people wantonly in the streets!


;-) Sarcasm off, of course.

 

[thatJeffguy]

Who is checking for permits? I hope that when you see a gun on a patient you are not spending time to check for the validity of a permit. Gun on scene (unless it is in the hands of a LEO) makes the scene unsafe because you do not know the reason for the gun being on scene. When you arrive on scene you have only the information given you upon dispatch and we all know how accurate that always is; so a gun on scene is a gun on scene and therefore the scene needs to be viewed as unsafe until proven otherwise.

Perhaps we could sacrifice virgins to the allmight LEO GOD in the sky, and he could bestow the Magic required to "always be safe with guns" upon us mere mortals?

Also, you feel that a gun in the "hands" of a LEO means it's a safe scene? If the officers feel a need to have their holsters empty, I feel a need to be hiding somewhere. Cops with guns waving around doesn't mean it's safe.


God this thread is just going to led to an aneurysm...

 

[medichopeful]

Wow... I did not read all of the post, but I will comment on the statement:

"Me, personally, I would not treat them until they either relinquish the weapon to LE, or I verify that they do not have a weapon on them. The only time I would treat somebody with a weapon would be if they were another public servant (LE, etc)."

In my state, it is perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon with a permint, but it is NOT legal or ethical to deny EMS to a patient. I would think that you, your company and your municipailty would have your butt's sued if you denied care because a person was legally carrying a weapon.

Am I wrong?

I will tell you I fall in the "I carry, but not at work or when vollying for my department or any other time that it is not allowed or makes people/businesses I care about uncomfortable...." so it is not that I am fanatical in either direction. But, I think that failing to provide care when the patient is not breaking any laws is illegal and unethical.

No, it's not neglect. And nowhere did I or anybody else say that they were denying care. Rather, we are saying that we would delay care until the scene is made safe, or until we feel comfortable. It's the same principle as a situation with a fire. If there is a fire on scene, and you decide it's not safe to go in, I don't think you will be charged with anything. Same here. If you see a gun on scene, and you don't feel it's safe to go in, I don't know if you would be charged. I tend to doubt it, but I'm no expert.

And yes, like someone else said, some of these responses are from those who have never worked on an ambulance. But also, please remember this. Like all of medicine (and life in general), you can't always follow rules. I know that in certain circumstances, I will change how I handle it. But I will only change it if it does not compromise my safety. I'm sorry, but me and my partner almost always come first.

 

[thatJeffguy]

Im sorry, but I am going to put more trust in a police officer than I am some random citizen I come into contact with. That's just the way it goes. Which of the two has gone through an extensive background check, psychological check, and hiring process to carry a weapon? I'll tell you that it's not the CCW holder. So yes, a public servant IS more trustworthy than a citizen with a CCW.

OH? Which group commits more violent crimes, LEO's or CCW' holders? I'll give you a hint: You're about to have your point discounted. Find some sources if you'd like, I'll pop back into this absurdity in a little bit and show the DOJ stats.

By the way, the only person bringing a weapon into my ambulance (when I work on one) will be a LEO. If a patient has a weapon on them, they're not entering the patient compartment.

Does lead block your X-Ray vision? Or are you just omnipotent?

 

[medichopeful]

YOU HAVE SO MUCH TO LEARN!

Here @ EMTLIFE.com, we're all about fearing inanimate objects! I bet if that handgun got in the ambulance, every EMS responder would be possessed by it's demonic power and start killing people wantonly in the streets!


;-) Sarcasm off, of course.

Cut the attitude. We're having a serious conversation here, which could literally be a matter of life and death. And yes, although it is technically an inanimate object, it's about one that could actually kill somebody.

 

[thatJeffguy]

If you knowingly bring a patient into the hospital with a gun, the hospital is going to do everything they can to get you fired.

I'm not sure about that. What should you do, toss it out the window? Leave it on the street? Wait for a LEO response? Perhaps I'd, if I did anything, unload, secure, and ask for LEO (or a family member) to meet me at the ER and secure the item. I wouldn't surrender it without a reciept though, signed by the officer.

 

[medichopeful]

OH? Which group commits more violent crimes, LEO's or CCW' holders? I'll give you a hint: You're about to have your point discounted. Find some sources if you'd like, I'll pop back into this absurdity in a little bit and show the DOJ stats.



Does lead block your X-Ray vision? Or are you just omnipotent?

It's not even worth it to enter into this conversation with you.

 

[spinnakr]

it's about one that could actually kill somebody.

I take issue with this statement.
Any object can be a weapon. Period. A spoon can be a weapon. A fork can kill someone. A baseball bat is damn good at killing people. Narcotics, too, can kill someone. Personally, I don't give a damn if my patient brings a spoon on my squad. And narcotics? Usually, they're already there.

 

[thatJeffguy]

Cut the attitude. We're having a serious conversation here, which could literally be a matter of life and death. And yes, although it is technically an inanimate object, it's about one that could actually kill somebody.

Lots of inanimate objectivs can ACTUALLY kill somebody. Most, if not all, require either malice or negligence.

 

[JPINFV]

The only thing that would concern me more about a CCW permit holder being in possession of a fire arm is someone who isn't trained and competitent (as in not someone who has just taken a single course. Course+experience with fire arms) with fire arms handling the same fire arm because they arrived on an ambulance.

 

[thatJeffguy]

It's not even worth it to enter into this conversation with you.

Especially not if you're not willing to answer questions, cite information or consider that you might be wrong. How about you and VentMedic and firecoins all share the same sandbox, and you can help wash each others heads clean when you pull up for air?

CCW holders aren't violent criminals, guns aren't only carried by the allmighty bastions of safety (LEO), and even us mere peasants are allowed to express and act upon our Constitutional rights.



But sure, find a cop, they're the "only ones in this room" that know how to deal with firearms.

[YOUTUBE]91jcFTbLE8[/YOUTUBE]

 

[thatJeffguy]

I hope none of the hoplophobes here ever get called to a gun store for treatment. The LEO's would have to build a new building to "secure" all the deadly murder-sticks lying around