Code-3 911 Post move-ups

[ITBITB13]

I know of, and have seen several 911 companies in LA County do these..

Are they allowed? My understanding is that you can only activate lights and sirens if you are responding to a call, and not moving up to a post to cover that area.

Thoughts?

 

[squirrel15]

I know of, and have seen several 911 companies in LA County do these..

Are they allowed? My understanding is that you can only activate lights and sirens if you are responding to a call, and not moving up to a post to cover that area.

Thoughts?

Just curious, how do you know they are changing posts and aren't just cancelled enroute to a call?

 

[gonefishing]

I know of, and have seen several 911 companies in LA County do these..

Are they allowed? My understanding is that you can only activate lights and sirens if you are responding to a call, and not moving up to a post to cover that area.

Thoughts?

I use to get cancelled and we would stand down. Alot of company's do ift emergencys as well.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

In my area, we have 2 "move up" assignments, and emergency and a non-emergency. As you can imagine, most are of the non-emergency type--another department knows they are going to be out at a scene for a while, they're so busy that all units are tied up doing transports to somewhere half an hour away, there's a big event that's blocking off access to half of their town (yeah, long story, but we can say that the event was not planned out well...), etc. But there are times when it's warranted and dispatch will dispatch us as such. The only case I can think of right now is an incident as it was expanding where they didn't need additional units on scene at the moment but felt that it was possible they could need more later. I also know that a lot of departments have an emergency move-up as taking the paid-on-call people so they get a unit right away vs a non-emergency move-up as taking the paid-per-call people so they have to wait for people to respond to station and they might not get a truck out of that station. It's usually not utilized very much, but it does happen occasionally.

 

[ITBITB13]

Just curious, how do you know they are changing posts and aren't just cancelled enroute to a call?

Conversations with various company emts, and I may or may not work or have worked for a company that does them.

 

[toyskater86]

i worked at a Company that does 911 in LACo that is NOTORIOUS for code 3 move ups and code 3 to any post.

 

[Tigger]

I can not think of a time that it should occur. Possibly such a scenario exists, but nothing here warrants driving lights and sirens from point a to b.

Our mutual aid move ups are a minimum of a half hour so I do get how it goes.

 

[squirrel15]

Conversations with various company emts, and I may or may not work or have worked for a company that does them.

Fair enough. Was just curious

 

[Jim37F]

I've heard of it happening (AmeriCare springs to mind) but I do believe it is also forbidden....I'm sure LA County EMS would love to hear details if you've been told by those employees they go Code just for post changes and not because they're on a call.....here in my FD even though pretty much every dispatched call is Code 3, move ups to cover other stations are never code 3

 

[ITBITB13]

I've heard of it happening (AmeriCare springs to mind) but I do believe it is also forbidden....I'm sure LA County EMS would love to hear details if you've been told by those employees they go Code just for post changes and not because they're on a call.....here in my FD even though pretty much every dispatched call is Code 3, move ups to cover other stations are never code 3

I've heard of americare doing it.. But there's other guys out there doing this stuff.
Anyone have a link of some sort to a specific document which says it's forbidden?

 

[gonefishing]

I've heard of americare doing it.. But there's other guys out there doing this stuff.
Anyone have a link of some sort to a specific document which says it's forbidden?

PRN did it when they took the contract for cedars from amr. One of the supervisors caught it on video. Was brought to the offices of DHS and LACems and was shrugged off.

 

[squirrel15]

So based on CVC 21055 it seems fire is allowed code 3 station/post moves, but all other emergency vehicles must be responding to an emergency to run code 3.

I'd post the link to the CA DMV webpage but my phone won't let me. Google CVC 21055 and it should be the first link.

 

[Mufasa556]

I can't find anything specifically saying it's forbidden. I read through my Ambulance driver handbook and CVC 21055 looks to be the only one that could apply.

I understand having units slung across town code 3 to keep response times down in the event an actual emergency were to take place. I don't necessarily agree with it, but can understand the logic behind it.

Running units across town/county code 3 to fulfill contract obligations for non-emergency patient transfers is irresponsible and dangerous.

LAEMS has a list of Ambulance Operator-Prohibited Acts in Reference 450 section 7.16.100.
http://file.lacounty.gov/dhs/cms1_206214.pdf

"Use a red light and siren (i.e., code 3 or emergent operation) for response to calls received as non-emergency."

Also, call jumping via scanner is a no no. I'll have to remind some of our more ricky rescue new hires of this.

Nothing I've found in both LA and OC's policies forbid code 3 move ups. Which surprises me as I think LA would have some thoughts on this.

 

[Jim37F]

Well dang, that is surprising. I've definitely seen the "Use a red light and siren (i.e., code 3 or emergent operation) for response to calls received as non-emergency." before, and every company I've worked for has presented post changes/move ups as being covered under the same reg from the county as opposed to just company policies :/ Hmm...probably why those companies have only had it shrugged off as gonefishing said...hopefully someone doesn't get into an accident while going code 3 on just a move up

 

[Tigger]

I can't find anything specifically saying it's forbidden. I read through my Ambulance driver handbook and CVC 21055 looks to be the only one that could apply.

I understand having units slung across town code 3 to keep response times down in the event an actual emergency were to take place. I don't necessarily agree with it, but can understand the logic behind it.

No logic can possibly support the risk associated with such a practice.

 

[LACoGurneyjockey]

No logic can possibly support the basic fundamentals of EMS in Los Angeles county.

Fixed that for you

 

[DrParasite]

No logic can possibly support the risk associated with such a practice.

I agree with you 100%.

Code 3 move up are as dumb as code 3 cover assignments. and FDNY (arguably one of the busiest FDs in the US) will respond lights and sirens to cover a firehouse while their crew is out fighting a fire.

For the record, I would imagine there aren't many rules against running code 3 to a cover assignment. Where you will run into an issue, is when you get into an MVA doing it, and the lawyer asks "why were you responding lights and sirens to a non-emergency assignment?" and your attorney says just keep adding 0s to the check. It's assumed you will use common sense as to when you use and don't use L&S; in my experience, this is often lacking, both in the provider, and in how the agency's senior staff train new hires in their use.