Bachelor's Degree in EMS?

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thatSPIKYflip

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What do you all think of majors in EMS/emergency medicine/etc?

Examples:

University of Pittsburgh

Stony Brook University (SUNY)

I'm a high school student, and I am very interested in EMS. I think that I would be more interested in these programs rather than the usual biology/chemistry/etc majors. I am also interested in getting a bachelor's degree so that I can keep any graduate/professional schools open for opportunities.
 
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Look at tuition versus future wages, especially if you'll be taking out student loans. EMS and disaster management isn't usually a field that'll make you rich.
 
Seaglass said:
Look at tuition versus future wages, especially if you'll be taking out student loans. EMS and disaster management isn't usually a field that'll make you rich.
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That depends on his future plans. If he wants to advance into education or go into operations at a county, state or national level, he will be better prepared. You would be surprised at the opportunities in disaster management that have opened up especially if one has field experience AND education.

He also has more opportunity to be on a state or national committee for EMS while he is working as a Paramedic to help shape the future of EMS. Right now there are many RNs in these positions since EMS lacks in providers with advanced education. RNs are also in the higher education management positions in the EMS programs due to a lack of higher degrees.

He can also apply for grants to do research while he is working as a Paramedic.

An education can open up many doors and still keep one in contact with the field and patients.

For the ambitious and those who want a career, not just a job and a union card, there are many opportunities,
 
EMSLaw said:
Know of any for those with a law degree? ;)
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Absolutely! Have you looked at how your state committees are chosen especially when it comes to writing statutes and reform bills?

With some EMS experience (and Paramedic) you would definitely be an assest at least on a committee until the right paid position opens up.
 
VentMedic said:
Absolutely! Have you looked at how your state committees are chosen especially when it comes to writing statutes and reform bills?

With some EMS experience (and Paramedic) you would definitely be an assest at least on a committee until the right paid position opens up.
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I'm in New Jersey, I don't think we're big on "reform". :)

Thinking of applying to medic school when I get the results of my EMT test back in a few weeks, though.

I'd know already if we still used NREMT, but we don't. Take your pick on the explanation - too many people were failing, or there aren't enough PearsonVue test centers (only five or so) in the state.
 
Doesn't pay well?

Emergency Medical Services Administrator

The Ideal Canadate
The required knowledge and abilities would typically be acquired through education and experience equivalent to a Bachelor's degree (or higher) in Health Administration, Business or Public Administration, or a closely related field and five (5) years experience directing or managing an Emergency Medical S ervices system in a large organization.

Compensation and Benefits
$102,643.84 ‐ $131,560.00

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/jobs/files/SantaClaraEMSAdmin.pdf




Here's something to ponder for the people wondering about oppertunities. Why isn't EMS demanding that EMS oversight positions employ paramedics instead of nurses? Imagine what would happen in a hospital if a physician was places in a management position over nurses? Of course when the vast majority of paramedics lack the ground work needed to be in a governement oversight position (read: college degree), it's understandable that the government looks outside the profession to fill the need for oversight. There is absolutely no reason why an EMS system program manager or ALS coordinator shouldn't be a paramedic provided that paramedics had the educational chops to work in that capacity. Can someone explain to me why, other than education, a paramedic shouldn't be in this $92,000-$132,000 a year position?
 
On the other hand, there are multiple benefits to going into one of these programs, especially if you were planning on going to college anyways:

1. If you change your mind, you still have a usable degree. I am only familiar with the program at U. Pitt (didn't go through it myself), but I assume SUNY is the same. The first two years of the degree are taking the same classes as most any other science program: general and organic chemistry, physics, biology, etc. all with labs. If you decide later on that you want to go to medical/graduate school, all your prerequisites should be covered and you came from a well respected school. AS degrees in EMS don't provide that.

2. you get 2 years to make up your mind. A huge benefit of large universities with multiple strong programs is that you can change gears partway through your education, and still leave with a great education from a good school. You can start out and see if you like what you've started. At least at Pitt, you will almost certianly take the EMT-B class freshman or sophomore year, and have an opportunity to get a feel for the EMS field before you start taking paramedic classes your junior year. If EMS isn't for you, there are other super strong programs to choose from. Don't underestimate that flexibility - I can't think of more than one person I know who didn't change majors at some point...only 1!

3. Upwards mobility. Take a look at the list of the faculty at Pitt, for instance. These people have all made a pretty good career out of EMS, but it is all based on higher education. the first step of that is earning a bachelor's. EMS salaries may be pretty low right now, but with a BS you can go in any of multiple directions after you graduate, or at least maximize your earning potential within EMS.


You do need to seriously consider the cost/benefit of advanced schooling, but so does anyone. With a B.S. in biology, chemistry, english, physics, etc., there really is not all that much you can do either right out of school. To make a serious career in any of these fields, more advanced degrees are necessary.

The simple fact is that an undergraduate degree is probably a poor FINANCIAL choice. On average you increase your lifelong earnings by like a million dollars or so by earning a bachelors. It's been calculated (not by me, I saw the calculation done once though) that if you properly invested the thousands you spend on an BS/BA, over the course of a normal working life you would increase your worth by something like 1.5 million. The reason taht anyone goes to college is that money isn't everything, and flexibility, mobility, growth potential, and self-satisfaction re all part of the equation. Plus, with a more advanced degree, those numbers may be completely different.


As I said, I decided not to do one of these EMS programs, I got my degree in another field. I don't have any regrets per-se, as I loved the program I chose (one of the aforementioned can't do much without more education fields) and had a great experience. (my plug for Pitt: I think it's a super school that's overall awesome at supporting its students and ensuring that faculty focuses on their roles as educators..disappointingly I'm becoming aware that this is not the norm at some other schools).

That said, I'm now starting to contemplate going back to get my paramedic cert. I'm not sure yet if I will, but it would be sort-of nice at the moment if I had earned a degree (like EMS) that gave me a bit more potential to get a job right now, rather than being forced to pay for yet more schooling until I'm ready to get an advanced degree.


Good luck with your decision. If you do go to college, whatever you choose remember to consider what you will do if you decide you don't like your chosen major quite as much as you thought. Backup plans = good. I know some people love small schools, but I really think the flexibility of large schools with multiple options is HUGE.
 
I work with a fair amount of Paramedics who have bachelors. They make the same as everyone else, kind of discouraging.
You can probably say the majority of EMS providers do not have one. I do however think its safe to say there are at least thousands if not tens of thousands of Paramedics with at least a BA and many many more with AAS.

So it makes no sense to me why they are hiring nurses for those slots simply because MORE nurses have higher degrees. There are still plenty of Paramedics with BA's or higher, we even have many of them posting on this thread....
 
You will lead the rest of the fold to the Promised Land!

VentMedic said:
He also has more opportunity to be on a state or national committee for EMS while he is working as a Paramedic to help shape the future of EMS. ,
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This is the only way it's gonna happen; if medics WANT to get educated. People like you can form a wave that makes this a real profession. Although I'm the first one to call it that, I know it's still got a way to go. Following the lead of Nursing, their first impact was in increasing the numbers of degree programs (by increasing demand). That's how they built credibility, and from that platform, respect and clout. Now THAT is a profession!
 
JPINFV said:
Doesn't pay well?

Emergency Medical Services Administrator

The Ideal Canadate
The required knowledge and abilities would typically be acquired through education and experience equivalent to a Bachelor's degree (or higher) in Health Administration, Business or Public Administration, or a closely related field and five (5) years experience directing or managing an Emergency Medical S ervices system in a large organization.

Compensation and Benefits
$102,643.84 ‐ $131,560.00

http://www.emsa.ca.gov/jobs/files/SantaClaraEMSAdmin.pdf




Here's something to ponder for the people wondering about oppertunities. Why isn't EMS demanding that EMS oversight positions employ paramedics instead of nurses? Imagine what would happen in a hospital if a physician was places in a management position over nurses? Of course when the vast majority of paramedics lack the ground work needed to be in a governement oversight position (read: college degree), it's understandable that the government looks outside the profession to fill the need for oversight. There is absolutely no reason why an EMS system program manager or ALS coordinator shouldn't be a paramedic provided that paramedics had the educational chops to work in that capacity. Can someone explain to me why, other than education, a paramedic shouldn't be in this $92,000-$132,000 a year position?
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I'll agree, that looks like a decent payoff for a Bachelor's.

I have questions though - how many of these positions are available, and do they compensate in proportion to the cost of living from region to region? Is this a case where there are only one or several positions throughout the county, or are there many opportunities for this type of career path nationwide? Would it be fairly easy to land this type of position with the proper credentials, or would there be a large amount of competition for only one or two spots?

I'd hate to spend four years or more at school only to find it prohibitively difficult to land the job that I envisioned, a real scenario that many teachers are facing at the present, to name but one profession.
 
schulz said:
I work with a fair amount of Paramedics who have bachelors. They make the same as everyone else, kind of discouraging.
You can probably say the majority of EMS providers do not have one. I do however think its safe to say there are at least thousands if not tens of thousands of Paramedics with at least a BA and many many more with AAS.

So it makes no sense to me why they are hiring nurses for those slots simply because MORE nurses have higher degrees. There are still plenty of Paramedics with BA's or higher, we even have many of them posting on this thread....
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How many with those degrees are still working in EMS?

Considering the number of providers in EMS, 10,000 is not impressive.

There are many Paramedics with Bachelors degrees on this forum but most are from other countries where that is the minimum to gain entry into the profession.

In the U.S. there is a drawback to getting an education. It opens your eyes to how poor the standards are for entry into EMS in the U.S. and you end up partnering with a 3 month wonder who has no clue about A&P and disease processes.
 
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46Young said:
I'd hate to spend four years or more at school only to find it prohibitively difficult to land the job that I envisioned, a real scenario that many teachers are facing at the present, to name but one profession.
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Those with no ambition will not find a career or even a job easily. There are still those who must have a union to get them a job and to hang onto it.

Those with an education will not be limited to being shackled to just one column in the help wanted section.
 
Thanks to everyone for their input!

I'm truly interested in making a career in EMS, but I am also interested in pursuing medicine. I think either of those programs will allow me to pursue my goals for the future.
 
thatSPIKYflip said:
Thanks to everyone for their input!

I'm truly interested in making a career in EMS, but I am also interested in pursuing medicine. I think either of those programs will allow me to pursue my goals for the future.
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Loma Linda in California also has a great program which offers different tracks. The only problem is being surrounded by California EMS.
 
I really like this posting from Scott on another thread in the international EMS section. This is just a chunk of it.


Scott33 said:
The UK has only just (in the last few years) started to roll out mandatory degrees for paramedics to practice. It is still in its infancy, and Scotland Wales, and NI are still in the process of getting the process off the ground. There is the option for current paramedics to do modules which will lead to a degree (just like as it has been in the US for years) but for the rest of the UK, paramedic courses are still being trained the traditional IHCD way. That can be as little as 12 WEEKS, which equates to about 480 hours including clinicals.

http://www.scottishambulance.com/UserFiles/file/WorkingForUs/Paramedic Training.pdf

http://www.ambulance.wales.nhs.uk/a...-4177-878a-94b8a8460e8a633689104710258750.pdf

As for the reading material being aimed at kids? The UK version of Nancy Caroline has only been out for a few years, and prior to that, the bible of the UK paramedic trainee was the US version - as is still the case with many other texts required.

I am not having a dig at any of those systems (my Brother is a UK Paramedic) but I think it is only fair that things are put into perspective. I could easily make it sound like Wake County NC, or Medic One Seattle are "typical" US systems, but that would not be true. But the fact remains, the degree medic has been around a lot longer in the US, than the UK - the difference is that the US does not make it mandatory in order to practice.

The main problems with US EMS when compared to the rest of the world, evolve around the complete fragmentation in standards of training and education, failure to recognize a common overseeing body, and the completely unnecessary integration with other professions. Education ranges from tech school to batchelors degree, hours of training range from 600 - 3,000 hours, scope of practice ranges from having to call for any form of pain management, to standing order RSI and induction of hypothermia in the periarrest patient.

On the whole, the US has as far from a perfect EMS system as you can possibly get. Can't deny it. But it is also, in certain parts of the country, way ahead of most other systems out there.

To quote Alan Murray, the CEO of the Welsh Ambulance Service - "If you want to see the best EMS system in the world, go to the US - if you want to see the worst, go to the US"
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jrm818 said:
I am only familiar with the program at U. Pitt (didn't go through it myself)
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jrm818,

Do you know at what point in the U.Pitt program do students test for their EMT-P? The critical care course requires students to be a certified medic.
 
thatSPIKYflip said:
jrm818,

Do you know at what point in the U.Pitt program do students test for their EMT-P? The critical care course requires students to be a certified medic.
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end of junior year I believe. I know that some work part time or full time as paramedics while completing their senior year classes. Again, not positive as I didn't go through the program, checking with pitt would give you the definitive answer.
 
VentMedic said:
Those with no ambition will not find a career or even a job easily. There are still those who must have a union to get them a job and to hang onto it.

Those with an education will not be limited to being shackled to just one column in the help wanted section.
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Sure, but I'd still hate to put my life on hold for four years and then have to wait tables at the local TGIF afterward due to a closed field.

What I was asking is if the commitment of a four year degree in Health Admin, or Public Admin (Business Admin is obviously versatile) would assure me a position similar to the one posted. It's easy to post something like that, but it means nothing if your chance of landing that type of job is, in reality, slim to none. I'm just asking if the job availability will be there, along with that level of compensation for someone with a BA in EMS. Valid question when considering education for a future career path. Arguably the most important question.

Would a BA in EMS actually lead to these positions, or would one need to compete against many others for relatively few positions? Would a degree in another field be more likely to land one of those jobs? Important questions that ought not be ignored if your career aspirations lead you in the direction of one of those positions.

I'm asking if a BA in EMS is being falsely misrepresented as a sure thing for one of these positions or if that degree would actually hold that much power. Not a bad question to ask when four years of your young life are being invested.
 
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