Ambulance driving...

VentMonkey said:
Wait, what? When is this EVER tolerable? You're going to risk your own life, and the publics whom you serve to rush to the scene of a "brother". With due respect I completely find this immoral.
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in an ambulance, correct it is never tolerable. That was spoken from a law enforcement officer side, where cars (ours in NYS anyway) are tested at speeds such as that. As well as protocols being in place for maximum potential speeds, those protocols varying depending if pursuing or not. Not saying that i go 110 for shts and giggles. For example my car has protocols that say i cannot achieve speeds of 120. I would also like to re-iterate, these we're perfect driving conditions (open straight road, no obstructions, dry, no wind, minimal traffic, Lights+ sirens). I am by no means going 110 on a city highway with hundreds of civilians on it, hell im probably not even hitting the speed limit in that case.

I find sirens help a ton with congested areas. ESPECIALLY if you change the siren every few seconds, it will grab the attention (Hopefully) of the shmuck thats on their phone that won't see your lights.
 
Spin it how you'd like. Perfect conditions, protocol this, no other cars that. I think 110 is inexcusable in any case.

Saying in the case you have listed makes it all that more inexcusable. And yes, I am referring to law enforcement, not EMS. Come on, now? No ambulance can even get up that fast without toppling over.

So going 110 plus in that one circumstance says and does what for that officer down, or shots fired? How would your significant other feel about this sort of approach? I inevitably would not have one much longer.

What does this say about the public image, or lack there of, of your department? Does this not sound completely over the top, and if doesn't then I certainly don't know that it speaks well for LE's point of view with "due regard". If anything, it says that you all are in fact above even the law because of whatever extenuating circumstances your (general LE) agency has perpetuated.

I'm sorry, but you will not convince me that this is acceptable under any circumstance. It's foolish and ignorant.

I chock this up to the same "I want to go home at the end of my shift" that is often cited, particularly in law enforcement. How is a knee-jerk 100+ mph sprint to save another officer any less foolish, or asinine than some goober driving an ambulance recklessly at 70 to get to gamgam who dun' fell?
 
never planned on convincing you, it says that my department will do what is necessary to protect its officers. We get adequately trained, and last i checked didn't endanger anybody. My fiance understands the inherent risks of my job, the same that i do. I would want people going as fast as possible safely to get to me if i got shot too. If it was raining would I go 110 or even close, nope. If it was anything other then minor traffic where i can visibly see every car on the road would i go that fast, no. Should every LE officer go that fast- no, but i am a believer in if your trained to do something use said training? It had nothing to do with me wanting to go home.
the goober is driving an ambulance which is for all intensive purposes, a UHaul truck. Which is by no means regarded as a performance vehicle.

Feel free to call NYSDOCCS Dpt of parole, and express your opinion of our public image if you'd like. I operate within the laws provided by the state of New York, nothing less nothing more. If my office said you can't drive over 90, I'd be going 89 (provided the same conditions ect) to get to that fallen officer.

NYS law 1104(authorizing emergency vehicles): "(c) Except for an authorized emergency vehicle operated as a police vehicle, the exemptions herein granted to an authorized emergency vehicle shall apply only when audible signals are sounded from any said vehicle while in motion by bell, horn siren, electronic device or exhaust whistle as may be reasonably necessary, and when the vehicle is equipped with at least one lighted lamp so that from any direction, under normal atmospheric conditions from a distance of five hundred feet from such vehicle, at least one red light will be displayed and visible."
 
Operating within the laws does not make it responsible. I am happy that EMS EVOC teaches vehicle dynamics tries to basically scare people into driving with due regard. Bad driving diminishes patient care, puts other drivers at risk, and oh and is a leading cause of death for EMS providers.

Don't think there is much of a comparison between law enforcement and EMS vehicle operations. Which is fortunate, the LEOs in this region wreck asine numbers of cars. Don't want that training.
 
@Tigger I can agree with everything you stated. LEO's virtually never wreck cars in my area. It seems like they may need more EVOC training :oops::rolleyes:
 
It can basically be summed up as due regard to those around you, your partner, and your patient. 75 is basically my cap, 80 if I am going downhill because gravity and ****. Since I work in the city, you can basically cut that way down due to frequent intersections. 95% of my calls are minor issues and do not need me driving fast to get there. And please....if you get to a backed up intersection with no opening, turn the damn siren off and wait. Don't be the jerk that pushes people into intersections for something that realistically likely isn't an emergency.
 
My last job policy was that when going Code 2 (no lights, no sirens, following all normal rules of the road), speed limit is the posted speed limit (shocker I know).

When going Code 3 (lights and sirens) you were allowed to go up to 10mph over the posted limit up to a max of 70mph (5mph over the maximum legal speed on the freeways, that'd still get you passed like you're standing still lol.....part of the reason why they wanted us to "shut down" the lights and sirens when on the freeway). You were also required to come to a full and complete stop at red lights, then visually clear each lane before proceeding, supposed to only cross red light at like 5 or 10mph, at the company EVOC they had multiple stories of units getting t-boned in intersections by people deciding they didn't want to wait in traffic and trying to drive straight thru the intersection using the right turn lane/gutters, We called them "Gutter Rats" and I know I've had a close call once or twice with gutter rats myself....

So bottom line....don't be flying down the street and through intersections at high speed (where you can't react, at least not without imparting enough G-forces to your partner and patient in back to make them feel like they're in astronaut training)
 
Here's an interesting article that kinda sums my thoughts up on it. Which is why i was wondering what the expectation was. I would be a more cautious driver rather than faster, and wasnt sure if that would frustrate everybody lol Because how much time do you really save going 100mph over 10 miles, as opposed to 60? With traffic and other obstacles factored in, I doubt whatever seconds you save arent worth the risk, and may make treating them onboard more complicated. If you are going a few hundred miles, high speeds may save some time but not so much in the city.

https://www.google.com/amp/lifehack...eally-get-you-there-any-faster-1556767685/amp
 
@Weeooh especially in EMS, nobody will be yelling at you for being too cautious. Be safe not sorry, operate within your set protocols and you'll be fine.
 
NysEms2117 said:
never let me drive... LEO EVOC and EMS EVOC are 2 entirely different things. I have no words to describe how far apart they are.
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You and me both. My FTO at my ems job was scared to let me drive before I ever got behind the wheel. Plus, medic school is super scientifically proven to make you worse at driving an ambulance.

VentMonkey said:
Also, lets face it- cops are by far the most dangerous lights and sirens drivers there are, EVOC or not.
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I agree with that for some departments. One in prticular out where I work I avoid like the plague. They are downright scary when they flip the lights on. Other than that, I prefer most police agencies out here over ems/fire for light and siren driving.

NysEms2117 said:
in an ambulance, correct it is never tolerable. That was spoken from a law enforcement officer side, where cars (ours in NYS anyway) are tested at speeds such as that. As well as protocols being in place for maximum potential speeds, those protocols varying depending if pursuing or not. Not saying that i go 110 for shts and giggles. For example my car has protocols that say i cannot achieve speeds of 120. I would also like to re-iterate, these we're perfect driving conditions (open straight road, no obstructions, dry, no wind, minimal traffic, Lights+ sirens). I am by no means going 110 on a city highway with hundreds of civilians on it, hell im probably not even hitting the speed limit in that case.
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I'm glad we don't have a hard speed cap, I would have had several pursuits end differently if I was stuck at 120.
 
chrls said:
I'm glad we don't have a hard speed cap, I would have had several pursuits end differently if I was stuck at 120.
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Keep in mind i am not a state trooper. Just a general question do you feel overall more relaxed/comfortable/ smooth, driving Leo cars vehicles(even at extreme speeds) then ambulances?
 
Depends on the vehicle and the suspension. Something like the old Fords were great. Not so sure about Suburbans or Tahoes. But the basic ambulance has a much higher center of gravity.than any of them.
 
NysEms2117 said:
Keep in mind i am not a state trooper. Just a general question do you feel overall more relaxed/comfortable/ smooth, driving Leo cars vehicles(even at extreme speeds) then ambulances?
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Yes, by quite a bit. I've driven my share of police vehicles (crown Vic's, 2013+ explorers, expeditions, chargers, Several different BMW motorcycles, and even the Harley's) for patrol/enforcement purposes. I feel much more comfortable driving/riding any of these compared to a vanbulance or a mod for normal driving or for lights/siren. I imagine some of the preference comes with the driving rules associated with driving at my leo job. My department policy on driving assumes I have some responsibility and decision making ability and let's me decide how I drive or if I even use my emergency equipment(I think we can all relate to that "respond code 3 for toe pain" call). While we do have rules set in stone for driving they lay more of a safe foundation for driving and trusts the officers judgement with a lot. At my private ems job I am stuck in a policy corner regarding code 3 operations for liability reasons.

I also feel much more smooth driving in a leo capacity because I'm not worried about driving super smooth for my partner in the back of the rig doing pt care. If I drive quickly in my police car/motorcycle I know it's something I'm comfortable with and I don't have to worry about a partners comfort/ability to perform job duties.

Hope that answers your question and doesn't make too many new ones.
 
chrls said:
I also feel much more smooth driving in a leo capacity because I'm not worried about driving super smooth for my partner in the back of the rig doing pt care. If I drive quickly in my police car/motorcycle I know it's something I'm comfortable with and I don't have to worry about a partners comfort/ability to perform job duties.
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that sums it up basically. I've only ever been assigned a charger so I don't know any of the other vehicles, but i for one felt 100% comfortable driving it at 100+. Ambulances put me on edge driving tbch.
 
A modern truck chassis is pretty safe on long, wide, straight Texas highways.
 
In my experience when it’s an officer down call all bets are off when it comes to LEO response speeds. Same can even be said for an officer down call with fire and EMS.

Down here in SoCal (at least where I am) the speed limit is 70 but the flow of traffic is 80. You can easily go +100 safely.

If I were an officer I would not want to work for a department that limited response speeds to an officer down or even an active shooter.
 
I think the main thing to remember is safety. Also, I think you should do research into the organizations you decide to work for and make sure they are adhering to all of the safety regulations for the ambulance. There are times when EMTs have to make tough decisions on driving the ambulance but if you are in a safe unit--then that helps a great deal. Have you saw the video where an Excellance ambulance was hit by a semitruck and everyone came out okay? So if it worries you about driving at high speed when getting a critical patient care, then make sure you also look into all of your safety issues for the ambulance you are in and make sure that the organization you decide to work for stays up to date on their safety regulations.
 
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