ALS+Some, would you go to school?

usafmedic45

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Originally posted by ECC+May 24 2005, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ECC @ May 24 2005, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-usafmedic45@May 24 2005, 11:27 AM



...the firefighters who are just taking it to pad their application to fill a Lazyboy at a paid FD for the next 20 years. .

That is for the next 23 years for your information, Missy!

Boy that smarted! :eek:











;) [/b][/quote]
:lol: Just so you know, that wasn't directed at anyone outside of the applicants for Terre Haute Fire. ;)
 

ffemt8978

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Originally posted by ridryder 911@May 24 2005, 10:20 AM
If you want to be an ambulance driver/attendant fine.. be an EVO. If you want to be payed & respected by other medical professionals.. go get a degree or advance your medical training , like every other medical profession had to. If you don't want to .. quit *****in about low pay, no respectablility among medical peers, and no career ladder, etc..
And I resent this comment, as a VOLUNTEER EMT. Our tax base isn't large enough by any stretch of the imagination to support a paid EMS system. Should I be treated any different because I live in a rural area and choose to give up my personal time to provide care for the sick and injured? Should my patients be treated any different because they do?

Let's face it. Paid services cover approximately 40% of the population and about 10% of the area in this country. The rest of it is covered by volunteer agencies that don't have the funding to send people to get a college degree so they can have some "respect".

Advancing my medical training is a great idea, and I'm all for it if you're going to pay for it. Otherwise, I'm limited as to how far I can advance before I exceed my agency license level. Taking courses beyond that is great for my own knowledge, but I won't be able to use any of those skills I learned so it doesn't help my patients in any way.

Oh yeah, in the words of Steve Berry, "I AM NOT AN AMBULANCE DRIVER!"

I am a medical professional held to the same standards you are, I just don't get paid for it.
 

ECC

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Originally posted by ridryder 911@May 24 2005, 12:20 PM
Sorry, ECC EMS is a business. A medical business. Squeeze more out of tax payers ? I(I guess you are for socialized medicine too ?)...






Be safe,
Ridryde 911
A) Being a smart a$$, and denigrating does not advance this discussion.

B) From your posting it is reasonable to assume that you attack those whom disagree with you with smart remarks and withering repartee...a halmark of the uninformed.

C) if you have been paying attention to the 'trends' you will see that most of them whither and fade away.

The bread and butter of this should be doing the right thing by the patient...as many as we can get to. Not bilking the US government (medicaid is a Federal tax subsidized program), not to line the pockets of Corporate America. The more you make, the more they make.

ridryder, you know nothing of me...I am hardly an 'ambulance attendant' but with all the acronyms behind your name and the obvious pride with which they are listed, allow me to do the same.

I have been in EMS since 1985...perhaps not as long as you, but 20 years is long enough. In those 20 years, 14 of them were in the Big Apple working 35-William, one of the busiest paramedic units in the world (1991-1995) and various other units in wonderful vacation areas like The South Bronx and Harlem (Lots of OT there :D ) In that time, I have done my share of good in the world without the acronyms (I have plenty, but see them for what they are). When I dress up in my Blues, I look like George S. Patton.

What does this all mean? nothing really, other than you are not the only experienced one here, and your whithering sarcasm on my career is wasted.

My career ladder is fine, I do not care what nurses think of me, as I have my own opinion of them, and I am doing just fine myself in the pay-scale.

Thank you and have a pleasant day. :D
 

usafmedic45

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Originally posted by ffemt8978+May 24 2005, 01:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ffemt8978 @ May 24 2005, 01:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ridryder 911@May 24 2005, 10:20 AM
If you want to be an ambulance driver/attendant fine.. be an EVO. If you want to be payed & respected by other medical professionals.. go get a degree or advance your medical training , like every other medical profession had to. If you don't want to .. quit *****in about low pay, no respectablility among medical peers, and no career ladder, etc..
And I resent this comment, as a VOLUNTEER EMT. Our tax base isn't large enough by any stretch of the imagination to support a paid EMS system. Should I be treated any different because I live in a rural area and choose to give up my personal time to provide care for the sick and injured? Should my patients be treated any different because they do?

Let's face it. Paid services cover approximately 40% of the population and about 10% of the area in this country. The rest of it is covered by volunteer agencies that don't have the funding to send people to get a college degree so they can have some "respect".

Advancing my medical training is a great idea, and I'm all for it if you're going to pay for it. Otherwise, I'm limited as to how far I can advance before I exceed my agency license level. Taking courses beyond that is great for my own knowledge, but I won't be able to use any of those skills I learned so it doesn't help my patients in any way.

Oh yeah, in the words of Steve Berry, "I AM NOT AN AMBULANCE DRIVER!"

I am a medical professional held to the same standards you are, I just don't get paid for it. [/b][/quote]
I think you probably know very well that that comment was directed towards the people who ARE paid and whine about how little they are paid. It's not a matter of personal "respect" that we are discussing- it's about trying to level the playing field for those of us who do this for a living amongst the other allied health providers. Professional respect.

Speaking as a volunteer EMS officer: The fact is that the fact you are a volunteer doesn't exclude you from being a knowledgable and skillful provider- which I am sure you are. If you came to me with the attitude that you don't need to know A+P, pathophys, public speaking, etc as an volunteer EMT at my service, I'd be the first one to tell you that you should find a different service to volunteer with. You don't have to take the classes to learn those things. You can learn them from simply reading. Whether or not you draw a paycheck for your actions is beside the point. You wouldn't argue that your quality of care is less than that of a paid provider- why argue that you don't need to be as educated?

But at the same time, most of you seem to be overlooking what Rid and I are saying- we aren't trying to belittle anyone, we aren't trying to put anyone out of work. We are trying to improve the quality of the career field by improving the new graduates who are coming out of school.
 

usafmedic45

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Originally posted by ECC+May 24 2005, 01:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (ECC @ May 24 2005, 01:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-ridryder 911@May 24 2005, 12:20 PM
Sorry, ECC EMS is a business. A medical business. Squeeze more out of tax payers ? I(I guess you are for socialized medicine too ?)...

Be safe,
Ridryde 911
A) Being a smart a$$, and denigrating does not advance this discussion.

B) From your posting it is reasonable to assume that you attack those whom disagree with you with smart remarks and withering repartee...a halmark of the uninformed.

C) if you have been paying attention to the 'trends' you will see that most of them whither and fade away.

The bread and butter of this should be doing the right thing by the patient...as many as we can get to. Not bilking the US government (medicaid is a Federal tax subsidized program), not to line the pockets of Corporate America. The more you make, the more they make.

ridryder, you know nothing of me...I am hardly an 'ambulance attendant' but with all the acronyms behind your name and the obvious pride with which they are listed, allow me to do the same.

I have been in EMS since 1985...perhaps not as long as you, but 20 years is long enough. In those 20 years, 14 of them were in the Big Apple working 35-William, one of the busiest paramedic units in the world (1991-1995) and various other units in wonderful vacation areas like The South Bronx and Harlem (Lots of OT there :D ) In that time, I have done my share of good in the world without the acronyms (I have plenty, but see them for what they are). When I dress up in my Blues, I look like George S. Patton.

What does this all mean? nothing really, other than you are not the only experienced one here, and your whithering sarcasm on my career is wasted.

My career ladder is fine, I do not care what nurses think of me, as I have my own opinion of them, and I am doing just fine myself in the pay-scale.

Thank you and have a pleasant day. :D [/b][/quote]
Nice to see that somethings are universal in EMS....like **** measuring contests.
 

ECC

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Originally posted by usafmedic45@May 24 2005, 11:35 AM
You're missing the big picture. The payscale won't increase unless there is a demand for it to. Basically cut off the supply of diploma and AAS degree paramedics, and they will be forced to pay for bachelor degree EMT-P's. Ohio, Washington, New York and a couple of other states already have degree regulations in regards to their RT's. Why should EMS be any different?

Oh and because a paramedic holds a bachelor's in something else doesn't mean they deserve anything more. Just like my EMT-I credential doesn't get me more money as an RT, an English degree won't get you more money as a paramedic.
I actually respect this posting...see...all we have to do is disagree without attacking.

Actually I do have a degree in Fire Sciences, and I am working on finishing up my Bachelor's in Fire Science with a minor in EMS management.

Not one red cent extra.

Also many departments (especially Civil Service) are ruled by contract, and those simply do not allow for extra pay for education.

I do see a larger picture, I think that perhaps there is a place for non-emergent Advanced Care Paramedics doing runs to private dwellings for the sniffles etc.

That is not what I got into Emergency Medical Services for. It is not my bag, and for me to go out and go through an Advanced EMT-P program, is not the way I wish to advance my career...if it were, I would have became a PA a long time ago.

JMHO :D
 

ECC

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Originally posted by usafmedic45+May 24 2005, 01:58 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (usafmedic45 @ May 24 2005, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by ECC@May 24 2005, 01:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-ridryder 911
@May 24 2005, 12:20 PM
Sorry, ECC EMS is a business. A medical business.  Squeeze more out of tax payers ? I(I guess you are for socialized medicine too ?)...

Be safe,
Ridryde 911

A) Being a smart a$$, and denigrating does not advance this discussion.

B) From your posting it is reasonable to assume that you attack those whom disagree with you with smart remarks and withering repartee...a halmark of the uninformed.

C) if you have been paying attention to the 'trends' you will see that most of them whither and fade away.

The bread and butter of this should be doing the right thing by the patient...as many as we can get to. Not bilking the US government (medicaid is a Federal tax subsidized program), not to line the pockets of Corporate America. The more you make, the more they make.

ridryder, you know nothing of me...I am hardly an 'ambulance attendant' but with all the acronyms behind your name and the obvious pride with which they are listed, allow me to do the same.

I have been in EMS since 1985...perhaps not as long as you, but 20 years is long enough. In those 20 years, 14 of them were in the Big Apple working 35-William, one of the busiest paramedic units in the world (1991-1995) and various other units in wonderful vacation areas like The South Bronx and Harlem (Lots of OT there :D ) In that time, I have done my share of good in the world without the acronyms (I have plenty, but see them for what they are). When I dress up in my Blues, I look like George S. Patton.

What does this all mean? nothing really, other than you are not the only experienced one here, and your whithering sarcasm on my career is wasted.

My career ladder is fine, I do not care what nurses think of me, as I have my own opinion of them, and I am doing just fine myself in the pay-scale.

Thank you and have a pleasant day. :D
Nice to see that somethings are universal in EMS....like **** measuring contests. [/b][/quote]
that was not very nice...read above! :angry:
 

rescuecpt

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Originally posted by usafmedic45@May 24 2005, 01:25 PM
RescueCPT, don't put words in my mouth.
Guilty conscience? I didn't reply to you, I replied to Rid, and even quoted Rid's post.

PS - Maybe your area isn't as progressive as far as EMT-P training as some other areas, -P's can do a lot around here. -CC's too.
 

Ridryder911

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Didn't mean to stir a hornets nest. Sorry, it was not pointed out to one specific or group of people. If I have offended anyone I am sorry.

Just get tired of seeing EMS personel griping about tattensing a couple hundred hours of class. I work full time in EMS, by choice. Yes, actually in a metro/ rural enviroment. That is even where more patient care is needed, with transport times over an hour. Being in a close proximity of local trauma & emergency facilities, the pre-hospital treatment phase does not have to have intensed protocols.

I don't care if you get a paycheck or volunteer. The person giving patient care should be a professional. They should have more than a few hundred hours of classroom study & couple weeks of clinicals.

Yes, I have been around. Was in a F.D., for over 10 years & almost completed my B.S in Fire Science & Safety Engineering. Problem was until the late eighties or early nineties, most F.D. was not intresested in EMS. Most only wanted fire supression only. Now with cuts in budgets, need of productivity; EMS is a great avenue. That is if they only get the emergencies. Just like an ER, you are going to have to take care of everything, why should the tax payers have to pay ? Why not let the city contract out & not cost the taxpayers at all ?

Just like fire suppresion is a science, so is emergency medicine. Both require intense education & continous adaptive development. If you are going to have a combined service, we should keep that in mind.

Respectfully,
Ridryder 911
 

usafmedic45

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Actually our EMT-P's have very broad skills...as do our EMT-I's.

And I took the comment you made to be directed at both me and Rid, because we share the same opinion of EMS and what direction it should take.
 

rescuecpt

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Originally posted by ridryder 911@May 24 2005, 02:32 PM
Just like fire suppresion is a science, so is emergency medicine. Both require intense education & continous adaptive development.
Right, that's why in my County, protocols are updated yearly, if not more (I'm constantly getting scope of practice letters detailing changes/upgrades to specific protocols and procedures), and that's also why we have all sorts of inservices, CME requirements, and drills. I didn't just sit back and say "aaaahhhh" the day my card came in the mail. Around here, they don't let you do that, even if I wanted to.
 

ECC

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To paraphrase:

Can't we all just get along? :wub:
 

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