ALS Sleepover

Our program does not allow for 24 hr shifts unless it is at your "home" station (where you work or vol.) and even then it must be pre approved and if you are not getting the calls then you go somewhere else. The only time you "ride for hours" is if you have completed all requirements and are proficent in your skills and can prove it. The station where I work was pulled for low call volume as were several other sites.
 
wyoskibum said:
Nurses get paid more
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Actually in some areas not anymore even on the hourly part. Plus the way EMS is done in many slow areas people do multiple jobs and still have more 24 hour days off than nurses and end up with more total annual income with great benefits and no part of fire. Of course this is Paramedic wages not basics.
 
Sasha said:
And out of curiosity, why would I be better off?
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Superior education, pay and benefits for starters. If I could do it all over, I would get my EMT, work per diem while I get my assosciates RN, challenge the medic, work FT as an RN/PT medic while I work on a firemedic spot at a quality dept. For about one more year of school, I could have had both my medic and RN. In today's world, a solid defined benefits program is highly desireable. FD/PD/EMS 3rd service aren't the only places to go for a pension. RN's can also work municipal and receive a pension as well.
 
medic417 said:
Actually in some areas not anymore even on the hourly part. Plus the way EMS is done in many slow areas people do multiple jobs and still have more 24 hour days off than nurses and end up with more total annual income with great benefits and no part of fire. Of course this is Paramedic wages not basics.
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If you don't mind, would you please share the names of these non fire agencies with great benefits? I started a thread today in regards. RN's in NYC were making about 70 grand starting. The best EMS agencies there were paying medics in the low 30's/hr, EMT's low 20's/hr.
 
46Young said:
The best EMS agencies there were paying medics in the low 30's/hr, EMT's low 20's/hr.
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Heck at $30 an hour x 40 hours a week X 52 weeks = $62,000 a year, thats w/o any overtime and I know very few 911 services that do not get overtime. So a Paramedic works say 3 24's a week leaving 4 24's off. They make way more than the RN and if with a decent company/city/county get great benefits.
 
Corky said:
Am i to understand some of these programs you people are in allow you to begin you paramedic internship prior to completion of ALL your didactic and clinical time? It appears that is what i am reading.
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Oh man, that would be great. I know my knowlede and skills and critical thinking would be solidified so much more that way.
 
medic417 said:
Heck at $30 an hour x 40 hours a week X 52 weeks = $62,000 a year, thats w/o any overtime and I know very few 911 services that do not get overtime. So a Paramedic works say 3 24's a week leaving 4 24's off. They make way more than the RN and if with a decent company/city/county get great benefits.
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If you're working 3 24's/wk, thats 72 hours/wk. If you get hammered during your shift, you'll need part of your day off to recover(sleep), or you'll spend the day like a zombie. If you have a family, you won't have a whole lot of quality time with them. RN's typically do three 12's/wk with a swing shift every third week. Plenty of time to actually enjoy life while off duty. The hourly wages I posted were topped out for medics, but starting for RN's. With some time on, the RN will pull away. At time and a half, the RN can do one or two 12's per week if desired, and blow away the medic, and still be working only 52-60 hours/wk. The hospitals that pay 30+ per hour(Cornell, NS-LIJ) strictly control OT, and will cannibalize IFT units to staff 911 units. At what point does working extra OT/per diem hours become blood money?
 
Also worth mentioning is that the agencies that are paying top dollar for medics, at least in the greater NY area, are hospital based and have a defined contribution 403b program only. That's one of the reasons they can offer good salary/benefits - no pension burden for them. It's well known in NY that you do FDNY EMS for top rate medical benefits/pension, or go to the hospitals for the $$$, superior working conditions, fixed schedule, no mandations. http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/community/ems_salary_benefits_042607.shtml
 
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I do believe most the pay discussed for RN's is way over exaggerated or one has to add week-end differential, night shift diff, specialized pay and so on. Overtime recently has usually become a thing of the past as well as 40 hour shifts if one does 12 hours, unless you count that extra 4 hours for education or TQI , etc.

Even travel RN's are only making $30 -40 hr an hour in most places and that is straight salary many without benefits.

I have seen an almost total decline or removal of any incentive bonuses such extra money for coming in short notice, recruitment, etc.

I thought of returning to nursing lately full time. I miss the patient contact but truthfully I can't afford to. As well, I set my own schedule and don't miss getting UTI's from never being able to take a break. Will return back part time this fall to the unit setting. The newbie nurses by then will have transferred around and they will need experienced nurses.

There is a method of how the supply & demand and the way economy affects the health care profession.

If you do so happen see extreme high pay for nursing, it is either a very high costs of living in the area or a job/location where no one else would work it.

R/r 911
 
Sorry, double post
 
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Yes, I've noticed that the RN's salary range dropped significantly from NY to NOVA. I've heard 25/hr commonly throughout the southeast, at least in parts of VA and SC. EMS only jobs don't generally compare in regards to salary.
 
I don't know what nurses make in my area, but a fully vested (20+ year) Paramedic with my company tops out at about $50,000 working 14 12 hour shifts a month. At the local FD, a 5 year EMT B/FF gets $70,000 a year and they work 24 on 72 off.
 
Aidey said:
I don't know what nurses make in my area, but a fully vested (20+ year) Paramedic with my company tops out at about $50,000 working 14 12 hour shifts a month. At the local FD, a 5 year EMT B/FF gets $70,000 a year and they work 24 on 72 off.
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Firemedics in NOVA generally do well. EMS only medics, save Alex Fire/EMS not so much. You must be west coast. Our FF/EMT's make about 60,000 or so after 5 years. Firemedics in their second year make at least 67,000/yr including riding pay and EMS incentive pay. It's the EMS only agencies that generally don't compare to RN's salary wise.
 
Out of curiosity, for those of you who are are against 24-hour shifts so that the intern doesn't need to sleep, how does your state judge an internship complete? Is it based soley on hours? Pre-hospital pt contacts? Preceptors recommendation? A combo of 2 or 3?
 
triemal04 said:
Out of curiosity, for those of you who are are against 24-hour shifts so that the intern doesn't need to sleep, how does your state judge an internship complete? Is it based soley on hours? Pre-hospital pt contacts? Preceptors recommendation? A combo of 2 or 3?
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All of the above, including X amount of skills i.e. 5 ETI, 20 med admin, 10 codes, etc.
 
I know I had to complete x amount of hourss and in those x amount of hours I had to get so many skills checked off. most of them checked off in the hospital as oppose to the rides.
 
46Young said:
All of the above, including X amount of skills i.e. 5 ETI, 20 med admin, 10 codes, etc.
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Then why the dislike for sleeping while on shift? (I only mean a 24-hour shift, not anything less) If all that was required was a specific number of hours, then sure, being on overnight when it is generally slower and the downtime will be spent sleeping isn't a good idea, I agree. Although night work does often have a different variety of calls... But with there being extra requirements...I don't see the problem. If the intern is on for 24 and ends up (barring calls) sleeping from 2200-0600, the hours may count, but if none of the other requirements are met, they'll need to keep going no matter how many hours they end up riding for. Here, depending on which agency the intern ends up with it's not unheard of for them to ride well more than double the number of required hours so that the rest of the requirements are met.
 
Because like many things about EMS education there is little consistency. Some of the mandates for the number of "skills" performed are set by the individual school and not the state. The states may make a recommendation for the minimum number of hours required for the program and not necessarily what is done during that time. Some schools count successful intubations and sticks on a manikin just as easily as live ones.

There are busy services that do have shifts in the evening and night where students can do a rotation. Even some busy FDs may rotate their Paramedics off the ambulance after 12 hours to an engine that doesn't do medical calls and allow another crew to work the EMS truck.

The sleepovers can easily be taken advantage of for purposes of just getting in hours if the school or state has no set requirements. It is not uncommon for some to seek out the slowest or easiest clinical situation just to get the hours in. Not everyone getting a cert wants all that patient care stuff and just want a good trauma or two to see what the lights and sirens stuff is all about.

Read Anthony's posts about the way his clinicals are set up. Some can get all 40 patient contacts in fairly quickly. Yet, I believe the state of CA still requires the student to have x amount of hours in also. Do you consider that not fair either?

I just believe a student should have the full advantage of being alert with an alert preceptor for learning. There will be ample time to fumble through calls in the 23rd hour after one gets their cert. If they can not remember much or the crew was too tired to care about explaining much, what good does it do to waste the time of both the crew and the student?
 
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