Age and firearms

[Fireguy]

I'm for concealed carry 24/7 along with the proper training. Read this article, it may change some minds. http://watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090201/NEWS03/302019939/-1/NEWS

 

[medic417]

I'm for concealed carry 24/7 along with the proper training. Read this article, it may change some minds. http://watertowndailytimes.com/article/20090201/NEWS03/302019939/-1/NEWS

Nothing will change the minds of most on either side.

 

[Seaglass]

Under 30, no military service. Don't know whether I'd say I 'want' to carry. I just see it as something that's occasionally a good idea.

I live in a very pro-gun area--as in, when my family moved, the police told us we were morons for not owning a shotgun. We ignored them. A few years later, our house was broken into by a gang which had killed several people during previous breakins. When the police arrived nearly an hour later, they told us again that we needed guns. So, that settled our minds on the subject.

Leaving criminals aside, we also have a lot of rabid animals. By the time Animal Control or Fish and Game gets out here, it'll be too late to even find it. Guns are a good idea there, too.

One of the places I work (not EMS) allows employees to carry with specific written permission from management. As I'm not allowed to carry in that jurisdiction anyways, I haven't really looked into it. It doesn't affect the work environment, since most people never notice.

Despite all that, I have absolutely no intention of carrying on EMS duty unless I become a combat medic. But the 'no military service' thing is likely to change in the future, and I'd do it without a problem if the job asked for it.

Here's a question for everyone since we are all medical professionals: If you have to shoot someone and you don't inflict an immediately lethal wound (GSW to the head for instance), would you feel obligated to try to help that person (assuming they were the most critically injured or even the ONLY injured person)?

Only if I were completely confident that they couldn't pose a threat, and didn't have any accomplices lurking around. And only after I called the cops.

I'd prefer to keep them alive. Fewer legal snarls, and might be useful to law enforcement if they aren't acting alone. That being said, there's no such thing as just shooting to wound, as far as I'm concerned. Shooting is always shooting to kill.

 

[Hockey]

Under 30, no military service. Don't know whether I'd say I 'want' to carry. I just see it as something that's occasionally a good idea.

Because only occasionally you will need it...



Let me post something that Glen Beck said recently...



[YOUTUBE]WvIABdkV3Dw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Fireguy]

That being said, there's no such thing as just shooting to wound, as far as I'm concerned. Shooting is always shooting to kill.

See look, your already thinking like a member of the military. Controlled pair, center mass and a safety round to the head.^_^

 

[Hockey]

Wrong

You don't shoot to kill


You don't shoot to wound


If you say either one, the lawyers will eat you up


You shoot to STOP THE THREAT

 

[Fireguy]

WOW, we can't slip anything by you. Its called shooting to Eliminate the threat and if you want to get technical it varies by state when you can shoot. Depending on what kind of threat is presented and where you are at the time.

 

[Seaglass]

Because only occasionally you will need it...

Because only occasionally am I not passing through a neighboring state with extremely severe penalties for non-residents who carry...

You shoot to STOP THE THREAT

I know all about stopping the threat, and the circumstances under which I can legally do so in my state of residence.

When I talk about shooting to kill, I'm speaking in psychological terms, not legal. Shooting to wound is a very popular idea among people my age around here. Most of them don't get that just shooting the robber in the knee probably won't work out so well... which is why being prepared for use of deadly force being deadly is a good move.

 

[HotelCo]

I noticed there isn't an under 30, with military service, and do not want to carry.... Just an observation.

 

[JPINFV]

You shoot to STOP THE THREAT

There's only one way to stop a threat when using deadly force. You use deadly force to stop a threat by killing them. You use less lethal force when trying to stop a force without trying to kill them. Both 'stop the threat,' but there's only one option when using a firearm.

 

[HotelCo]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke, nice.

I guess the real question would be:

If you are willing and agreeable to carry a gun (either in general or on the job), would you be willing to use it on another human, knowing that it could possible be fatal?

Rule #1: I go home to my family and loved ones.
Rule #2: Nothing interferes with Rule #1.

Yes, if they were willing to take my life, I don't have a problem taking theirs.

So are you advocating that we arm students or teachers??? Yeah, let a student get in a disagreement with a teacher and shoot them or vice versa! People can't be trusted to handle arguments responsibly outside of school and without guns, but you want to arm them??

Can't an argument happen anywhere? If you're willing to apply that logic to students and teachers, you should be willing to apply all over.

Now, this said, I fully endorse schools from limiting the ability of on campus residents, especially first and second years, from having guns in the dorms due to the presence of EtOH and the amount of binge drinking that occurs.

Agreed. Especially on the idea of the Freshmen and Sophomores.

Here's a question for everyone since we are all medical professionals: If you have to shoot someone and you don't inflict an immediately lethal wound (GSW to the head for instance), would you feel obligated to try to help that person (assuming they were the most critically injured or even the ONLY injured person)?

I'd first call 911 and get the police on the way. Then, if I were positive they weren't a threat anymore, and there was someone that needed my help, that wasn't trying to kill me... then yes, I'd help them.

 

[Hockey]

Because only occasionally am I not passing through a neighboring state with extremely severe penalties for non-residents who carry...
.

Which state?

 

[fma08]

Here's a question for everyone since we are all medical professionals: If you have to shoot someone and you don't inflict an immediately lethal wound (GSW to the head for instance), would you feel obligated to try to help that person (assuming they were the most critically injured or even the ONLY injured person)?

If they weren't a threat anymore, then my duty with a CCW would be over, and my duty as a medical professional would step in. If they weren't triaged as black, then yeah, probably would work on them a bit. Kinda like that treating a rapist thread. You have a duty to treat everyone, equally, regardless of their criminal history.

 

[usafmedic45]

Controlled pair, center mass and a safety round to the head.

Ah, the Mozambique drill.....one of my favorite tactics to practice.

 

[usafmedic45]

You have a duty to treat everyone, equally, regardless of their criminal history.

Not technically if you're off duty you don't, at least in most states. I only know of a couple that obligate EMS professionals to respond when off duty to render assistance. One might feel a moral duty to act, but so far as I am aware there is no legal duty to act in most areas.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Rule #1: I go home to my family and loved ones.
Rule #2: Nothing interferes with Rule #1.

Yes, if they were willing to take my life, I don't have a problem taking theirs.

Easy to say... harder to do... When the time comes, can those in EMS really pull the trigger (violating all their "help other/do no harm" personal convictions that helped them find their way into EMS) and then deal with the emotional and personal afteraffects?

I would like to say that I would as well, but I know myself well enough to know that it isn't neccessarily that simple. I have set myself on a path of helping others (at the risk of hurting myself sometimes) and while I could (in theory) shoot to defend a helpless soul in need... to defend self? I, oddly enough, would find it harder. I could internally justify killing someone to defend someone... but the thoughts of "did I have to do this in order to really protect myself?" would be harder to deal with if I shot to defend self...

I know a guy... He got his start 25 years ago as a Paramedic and was a Supervisor for one of the national companies in a division that had 200 employees. He also went on to become a Reserve Deputy for my county SO. After years of playng Medic Supervisor, he left it (still maintains his license) and went full-time Deputy, including SWAT. As a Deputy, he is now the SO SAR Coordinator and County Coroner. He carries a BLS jump bag on his back seat, right next to his assault rifle. I find the combination odd and can't understadn the connections that allow him to work at saving lives, enforcing the law, investigating deaths, and carrying assault rifles in his truck. Great guy... but odd combo to have an armed Paramedic/Coroner respond with you on calls to save lives with a .45 on his hip.

 

[fma08]

Not technically if you're off duty you don't, at least in most states. I only know of a couple that obligate EMS professionals to respond when off duty to render assistance. One might feel a moral duty to act, but so far as I am aware there is no legal duty to act in most areas.

Right, but are you telling me that if there were injuries of such a sort and you were there (off duty), you wouldn't jump in to start helping until the back up arrives to take over? I know I would. I'm not trying to sound high and mighty here, but I just don't see how one who has the training could just stand there or leave without helping.

I know there's a lot of "what are the odds" in this entire thread, but still.

 

[enjoynz]

No one but the Police should be allowed to carry hand guns, period!
Know matter what country you live in!-_-
The West was won a long time ago. Time to move on!
My nephew was over visited NZ from the States last weekend.
He has been living there for the past 12 years.
He was telling us how easy it is to walk into a shop and buy whatever weapon you please. That is very sad.
I know a lot of you are into guns...but to me guns are made for one reason only. That reason was not the reason, I became an Ambo.

Enjoynz

 

[JPINFV]

I know a lot of you are into guns...but to me guns are made for one reason only.

Wrong on so many levels. Firearms are built for sport, protection, hunting, collecting (have you seen the designs on some firearms?) and several other reasons. To boil guns down to just killing would be like boiling knives down to just killing.

 

[usafmedic45]

Right, but are you telling me that if there were injuries of such a sort and you were there (off duty), you wouldn't jump in to start helping until the back up arrives to take over? I know I would. I'm not trying to sound high and mighty here, but I just don't see how one who has the training could just stand there or leave without helping.

I know there's a lot of "what are the odds" in this entire thread, but still.

If I just tried with all means available to me to kill someone who was trying to hurt me or someone else (or steal property in some states), you think I really care if they bleed out on the floor? Once you've made the decision to kill that person, it really isn't something you should go back on. Besides, if I'm not legally obligated to help them and feel no moral obligation to risk infectious disease exposure while trying to aid someone who was committing a crime what impetus do I have to do so?

violating all their "help other/do no harm" personal convictions that helped them find their way into EMS

You're confusing the standards of the Hippocratic Oath and personal conviction and are forgetting that justification isn't just a legal term. A lot of us have zero empathy and zero sympathy for criminals so if push comes to shove there is little moral conflict on that end and even less professional conflict in terms of what we are expected to do. To me shooting someone under reasonable circumstances while off duty is not any different than if I were to shoot one of the aggressive feral dogs that inhabit the area where my parents live. I do not have any legal or moral reason to help the dog- although I would be much more likely to perform first aid on a wounded animal than a wounded burglar while off duty. I've actually run dogs, a turkey and other wildlife struck by vehicles into the vet to assure they are taken care of because I am concerned about their wellbeing. I am not so concerned about the health or comfort of someone who just tried to assault me.