911

Cory

Forum Captain
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The fact that private companies do not run in your area is not evidence that private EMS is not a better system! Just as the fact that private companies running in Ventura in California does not prove that Fire is not a viable option for the community.

I gave you a thoughtful reply and you give me a one sentence phrase that proves and means nothing.



You said:
How do you know that the Fire service is better for your community?

So I responded with:
yes, because private companies don't respond to 911 here.




And btw: Cincinnati is one of the most poverty stricken cities in America, debatably the poorist, so I don't think insurance is too common among the drug addicts and gang members that are commonly picked up by our EMS. Is it true that a private company won't transport if the patient has confirmed to have no insurance on scene? (don't jump down my throat if I'm wrong, just answer the question)
 
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Sasha

Forum Chief
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The fact that private companies do not run in your area is not evidence that private EMS is not a better system! Just as the fact that private companies running in Ventura in California does not prove that Fire is not a viable option for the community.

I gave you a thoughtful reply and you give me a one sentence phrase that proves and means nothing.

Of course it does. It just means that the EMTs are so inferior at a private company that they are not allowed to touch REAL patients. :p That is just my factpinion.

Seriously though, I think both systems have their place if they can provide their response area with quality ALS service. I don't care if they're private, county, or fire.
 

AZFF/EMT

Forum Lieutenant
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I work for a fire district, we have 7 rescue ambo's 1 ff/emt and 1 ff/medic per. We cover approx 2000 sq. miles and serve 2 other fire districts and 1 town of approx 70k people.

Every call gets 1 engine 2emt & 2medics and a rescue. Exception is a large prison we cover that only gets a rescue except on code's, stabbings, shootings.

At times 6 guys on scene is a little much, but captain usually stands back or helps family members with information or anything they need. Engineer stands back usually as well, so only 4 are treating/charting. I like it our o/s times are usually pretty short compared to other areas that send engine first, then special call ambo's.
 

daedalus

Forum Deputy Chief
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You said:


So I responded with:





And btw: Cincinnati is one of the most poverty stricken cities in America, debatably the poorist, so I don't think insurance is too common among the drug addicts and gang members that are commonly picked up by our EMS. Is it true that a private company won't transport if the patient has confirmed to have no insurance on scene? (don't jump down my throat if I'm wrong, just answer the question)
So the fact that Private EMS does not run in your community means that Fire service EMS is better for your community? I do not see the logic.

I will use an analogy to clarify. Police in New York are forced to drive aging and broken down fleet of crown victorias. You are the chief of police. A Dodge salesmen comes to the department and says to you " I got a great deal for your department on some of our police equipped Chargers. They are better for your community than the old Fords"
You reply "No, they are not"
To which the salesmen says "Why do you say that, you fleet is breaking down and un usable"
Your reply "Because we use old Fords in our community, therefore, they are better"

This is the logic I am seeing from you, and I do not understand it. Just because something is done the way it is, doesnt make it better than an alternative solution.
 
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Cory

Forum Captain
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So the fact that Private EMS does not run in your community means that Fire service EMS is better for your community? I do not see the logic.

I will use an analogy to clarify. Police in New York are forced to drive aging and broken down fleet of crown victorias. A Dodge salesmen comes to the department and says to you " I got a great deal for you department on some of our police equipped Chargers. They are better for your community than the old Fords"
You reply "No, they are now"
To which the salesmen says "WHy do you say that, you fleet is breaking down and un usable"
Your reply "Because we use old Fords in our community, therefore, they are better"

This is the logic I am seeing from you, and I do not understand it.


I am not debating that private EMS should run emergency here, that is hardly an option in this city. So, therefore, FD EMS is better than NOTHING.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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That's not the debate though. The debate rest pretty much around this:

I never said they were illogical, I said they were no more logical than FD's in a big city.




I saw where daedalus stated his side, but you haven't backed yours up yet.
 

reaper

Working Bum
2,817
75
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You said:


So I responded with:





And btw: Cincinnati is one of the most poverty stricken cities in America, debatably the poorist, so I don't think insurance is too common among the drug addicts and gang members that are commonly picked up by our EMS. Is it true that a private company won't transport if the patient has confirmed to have no insurance on scene? (don't jump down my throat if I'm wrong, just answer the question)

First off, there are decent FD's that handle EMS and there are decent privates that handle EMS. With that said, I would much rather see EMS handled by a county third service over all others. There is no conflict of interest with them. FD medics, must be FF's and cannot concentrate their full time to EMS. Private companies are out for the bottom dollar and will never put pt's above all else. A third service concentrates fully on EMS and is not as worried about the bottom dollar, as they are partly tax based.

BTW- I have lived in the cincinnati area and yes, it is a bad place. But, I have seen much worse and much poorer areas. Cincinnati is an average American city, not bad and not good, just average!;)
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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How bad can it be if it invented the Cincinnati Stoke Test? ^_^


I mean, aside being in Ohio....
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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Is it true that a private company won't transport if the patient has confirmed to have no insurance on scene?

No.

Diez Chars.
 

atropine

Forum Captain
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I did not say that the fire department paramedics are bad at what they do. I provided you with an very small picture of what I see in my day to day run ins with them. They tell me they do not want to be EMTs or Paramedics. They tell me everyday.

How do you know that the Fire service is better for your community? Can you provide evidence? Private EMS offers an economically viable solution to providing emergency medical services to large and small communities, and creates an environment where tax payers are not billed for service, but rather individual patient's insurances are. (insurance and health care billing is a whole different beast so I won't go into it). Private EMS agencies bid for contracts, creating a free market system in which the local government can pick the agency that works best for them all while saving millions of dollars that could be spent on education and city renovation. Paramedics have the potential to make better wages in these systems with increasing educational demands, which hopefully will be recognized in the future by medicare and private plans, reimbursement may go up. Also, paramedics will not be forced to wear the hat of another professional, and can concentrate on providing patient care.
I know fire based works, because it hasn't changed in the past 100 years, and no of the community is complaining about, as far as the privates go nobody wants to make 12.00 an hour forever, so with high turn over the wages won't increase and the privates will still be able to afford cheap labor.:rolleyes:
 

daedalus

Forum Deputy Chief
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I am not debating that private EMS should run emergency here, that is hardly an option in this city. So, therefore, FD EMS is better than NOTHING.

Ok, I see where our communication is failing. If your city decided that private EMS would save them money one day (this is hypothetical) there would be a few companies that would start bidding for the contract ASAP. Just because there are no companies there now, does not mean that AMR or RuralMetro or other national EMS agencies could not be there in a few months to gladly take over.
 

ke5wrr

Forum Ride Along
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Police Dispatcher handles 911 and we transfer calls according to response needed EMS, FD, other cities, or other counties!!B)
 

Cory

Forum Captain
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BTW- I have lived in the cincinnati area and yes, it is a bad place. But, I have seen much worse and much poorer areas. Cincinnati is an average American city, not bad and not good, just average!;)

As I do agree to some extant, that staement is still debatable:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctg0S_CniqQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2Fwlwttv&feature=player_profilepage[/YOUTUBE]

This video is not whole proof, and it is almost 2 years old, but my statement still stands that there is a large number of insurance-less people.
 

reaper

Working Bum
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Considering that EMS has only been around for 40 years, I guess fires been making it up for the other 60?
 

Sasha

Forum Chief
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As I do agree to some extant, that staement is still debatable:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctg0S_CniqQ&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eyoutube%2Ecom%2Fuser%2Fwlwttv&feature=player_profilepage[/YOUTUBE]

This video is not whole proof, and it is almost 2 years old, but my statement still stands that there is a large number of insurance-less people.

Welcome to America where there is a large number of uninsured people everywhere.

Also do you have a source more reputable than some snippet of an unidentified (as far as I heard) news cast on youtube?
 
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daedalus

Forum Deputy Chief
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I did not say that the fire department paramedics are bad at what they do. I provided you with an very small picture of what I see in my day to day run ins with them. They tell me they do not want to be EMTs or Paramedics. They tell me everyday.

How do you know that the Fire service is better for your community? Can you provide evidence? Private EMS offers an economically viable solution to providing emergency medical services to large and small communities, and creates an environment where tax payers are not billed for service, but rather individual patient's insurances are. (insurance and health care billing is a whole different beast so I won't go into it). Private EMS agencies bid for contracts, creating a free market system in which the local government can pick the agency that works best for them all while saving millions of dollars that could be spent on education and city renovation. Paramedics have the potential to make better wages in these systems with increasing educational demands, which hopefully will be recognized in the future by medicare and private plans, reimbursement may go up. Also, paramedics will not be forced to wear the hat of another professional, and can concentrate on providing patient care.
I know fire based works, because it hasn't changed in the past 100 years, and no of the community is complaining about, as far as the privates go nobody wants to make 12.00 an hour forever, so with high turn over the wages won't increase and the privates will still be able to afford cheap labor.:rolleyes:
Maybe where you live. There are some pretty decent opportunities for private paramedics in Ventura, Santa Barbara, San Luis, and some more northern california counties. Just because California does things one way does not make it right.

People do not generally complain in LA and OC because of the aggressive hero image people like Brian Humphery work hard to put up.
 

Shishkabob

Forum Chief
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This video is not whole proof, and it is almost 2 years old, but my statement still stands that there is a large number of insurance-less people.

Hate to digress but....


How does lack of insurance make a city bad?




Have you ever been to Detroit or Flint? You're telling me Cincinnati is worse then the two cities who have held the top spots for the most dangerous violent crime cities in America for several years now?
 

Cory

Forum Captain
332
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Cincinnati FD was first official department in the nation, established April 1, 1853
 

Cory

Forum Captain
332
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Hate to digress but....


How does lack of insurance make a city bad?




Have you ever been to Detroit or Flint? You're telling me Cincinnati is worse then the two cities who have held the top spots for the most dangerous violent crime cities in America for several years now?

nononono, I am saying that is most likely a large reason why private EMS is not present in Cincinnati 911 resonse yet.
 
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