911

Yea FDs tend to go pretty overboard with engines to small scenes. Waste of time and resources IMO
 
daedalus said:
Totally. However, I notice that when I go to the hospitals in LA City Fire's call out area, patients are distressed by my presence much more than other areas. Anyone in an ambulance is the same to them. Since I work exclusively CCT now, I deal with the bad decisions of first responders daily at work. Also, that was not meant to be evidence to expel the fire service, just one of my more recent observations of their work.
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Sweetie, I see it too. (we transfer god knows how many patients from the ER to the appropriate facility just a little ways further each day. ) however don't paint the all FF with the same broad brush because the ones in your area sucks. GENERALLY the ones in my area are pretty good. I notice that the ones from the larger dept are usually a little more below standard than the ones from smaller departments.
 
Linuss said:
All the fire based EMS I've seen around here don't send "just" an ambulance. They send an engine AND an ambulance. That's 6 paramedics, at minimum, on every call, from a simple "I stubbed my toe" to a "A shark bit me", from a single station. That, good sir, is a waste.


Fort Worth? An engine on the most major of calls, with 2-3 EMT's and a medic, and 1 private ambulance with an EMT and a medic. I
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Get this. I have been on a call where LA County Fire sent a paramedic squad (2 FF/paramedics), a patrol truck (2 FF/EMTs), and an Engine ( 1 medic, 3 FF/EMTs). I was also on scene with my partner and a trainee (3 EMTs from private ambulance). 11 people and 4 response vehicles, sent to a home, for an elderly women who became upset after cleaning her bathroom with bleach.

Can you imagine 11 people barging into your home?
 
All those people would give me an anxiety attack and then we would have a real emergency haha
 
Sasha said:
Sweetie, I see it too. (we transfer god knows how many patients from the ER to the appropriate facility just a little ways further each day. ) however don't paint the all FF with the same broad brush because the ones in your area sucks. GENERALLY the ones in my area are pretty good. I notice that the ones from the larger dept are usually a little more below standard than the ones from smaller departments.
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I am not. What I am doing is trying to show Cory that it is not appropriate to say that Private EMS is clearly "illogical" according to him, when he has never been in the field or EMS management. I do not disagree with fire based EMS, but I do advocate what is best for our patients and is sustainable for society. I believe that in California, budget cuts for our fire departments are in order because it is un-needed to have a station on every corner and to send out the world for every granny in distress. It is expensive and excessive, however the public will never vote contrary because the fire departments can easily run scare campaigns of a child falling and getting hurt and the neighborhood fire station rapidly showing up on scene to save the boy. Plays well on TV.
 
I refuse to believe all FD based medics are bad because you have had a few bad run in's with them. If that is suppossed to be reason for me to be biased towards private companies, it didn't work.

I saw a movie last week and it sucked. But for some reason, I don't think all movies suck.

Get my point? And you can play on my lack of experience all you want, but common sense is still existant outside of EMS.
 
daedalus said:
I am not. What I am doing is trying to show Cory that it is not appropriate to say that Private EMS is clearly "illogical" according to him, when he has never been in the field or EMS management. I do not disagree with fire based EMS, but I do advocate what is best for our patients and is sustainable for society. I believe that in California, budget cuts for our fire departments are in order because it is un-needed to have a station on every corner and to send out the world for every granny in distress. It is expensive and excessive, however the public will never vote contrary because the fire departments can easily run scare campaigns of a child falling and getting hurt and the neighborhood fire station rapidly showing up on scene to save the boy. Plays well on TV.
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I never said they were illogical, I said they were no more logical than FD's in a big city.

And I guess in your area people support the fire department, but in my area they aren't asking for anyone's vote. They are shutting the stations down anyway. And it will be a loss, especially because most private companies around here, if any, do 911 response.
 
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I am not. What I am doing is trying to show Cory that it is not appropriate to say that Private EMS is clearly "illogical" according to him, when he has never been in the field or EMS management.
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I really hate it when people with zero experience comment on how EMS should be run.

I do not disagree with fire based EMS, but I do advocate what is best for our patients and is sustainable for society.
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Sorry, I misinterperted your posts and jumped down your throat. You know how I love a good discussion with you. :P
 
Yea i don't think you can actually have an opinion unless you've been in the field and see what a mess it can be
 
Cory said:
I refuse to believe all FD based medics are bad because you have had a few bad run in's with them. If that is suppossed to be reason for me to be biased towards private companies, it didn't work.
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No one says all FD based are bad. Never say all, every, or none.


One of the biggest arguments against fire based EMS is the fact that they don't worry about just medicine... they spend as much time, if not more, training for fires. Also how many FF's view medic as just another hurdle to get hired on AS an FF, and have no real interest in doing the job of a medic.




Not, just to make it clear to you, that doesn't mean all fire based medics think like that. Heck, one of my teachers is a fire based medic, and thinks EMS should be separate from fire, but the only way to make a decent living and retirement as a medic here in DFW IS to be a FF.
 
Cory said:
I refuse to believe all FD based medics are bad because you have had a few bad run in's with them. If that is suppossed to be reason for me to be biased towards private companies, it didn't work.

I saw a movie last week and it sucked. But for some reason, I don't think all movies suck.

Get my point? And you can play on my lack of experience all you want, but common sense is still existant outside of EMS.
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I did not say that the fire department paramedics are bad at what they do. I provided you with an very small picture of what I see in my day to day run ins with them. They tell me they do not want to be EMTs or Paramedics. They tell me everyday.

How do you know that the Fire service is better for your community? Can you provide evidence? Private EMS offers an economically viable solution to providing emergency medical services to large and small communities, and creates an environment where tax payers are not billed for service, but rather individual patient's insurances are. (insurance and health care billing is a whole different beast so I won't go into it). Private EMS agencies bid for contracts, creating a free market system in which the local government can pick the agency that works best for them all while saving millions of dollars that could be spent on education and city renovation. Paramedics have the potential to make better wages in these systems with increasing educational demands, which hopefully will be recognized in the future by medicare and private plans, reimbursement may go up. Also, paramedics will not be forced to wear the hat of another professional, and can concentrate on providing patient care. This also frees the Fire service to concentrate on fire fighting and rescue.
 
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Linuss said:
No one says all FD based are bad. Never say all, every, or none.


One of the biggest arguments against fire based EMS is the fact that they don't worry about just medicine... they spend as much time, if not more, training for fires. Also how many FF's view medic as just another hurdle to get hired on AS an FF, and have no real interest in doing the job of a medic.




Not, just to make it clear to you, that doesn't mean all fire based medics think like that. Heck, one of my teachers is a fire based medic, and thinks EMS should be separate from fire, but the only way to make a decent living and retirement as a medic here in DFW IS to be a FF.
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I am not doubting there are too many FF's doing medic work just to look good as a FF. Trust me, there is a fair share of volunteer only FD's around here that are almost all this way. But look at some FD EMS, for instace FDNY. They have a very qualified and dedicated group of FD medics and a group of FF's with EMT cert. just because. And there will always be a mix. But in an area like mine, they are the only 911 responders. And the cities do a d$%^ good job of selecting who will go on most medical runs, and who will go on most fire runs. For instance, I live in a very ver small suburb, the FD engine shows up for everything. Sometimes there is never even an ambulance there. But in the big city just miles from my town, it is different. Medics are out constantly, and the FF's keep to the fires.

It is not right to make a statement about the quality of FD medics throughout the country. There are different people and variables everywhere. What is true of one area is not true of another.
 
daedalus said:
I did not say that the fire department paramedics are bad at what they do. I provided you with an very small picture of what I see in my day to day run ins with them. They tell me they do not want to be EMTs or Paramedics. They tell me everyday.

How do you know that the Fire service is better for your community? Can you provide evidence? Private EMS offers an economically viable solution to providing emergency medical services to large and small communities, and creates an environment where tax payers are not billed for service, but rather individual patient's insurances are. (insurance and health care billing is a whole different beast so I won't go into it). Private EMS agencies bid for contracts, creating a free market system in which the local government can pick the agency that works best for them all while saving millions of dollars that could be spent on education and city renovation. Paramedics have the potential to make better wages in these systems with increasing educational demands, which hopefully will be recognized in the future by medicare and private plans, reimbursement may go up. Also, paramedics will not be forced to wear the hat of another professional, and can concentrate on providing patient care.
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yes, because private companies don't respond to 911 here.
 
Cory said:
yes, because private companies don't respond to 911 here.
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The fact that private companies do not run in your area is not evidence that private EMS is not a better system! Just as the fact that private companies running in Ventura in California does not prove that Fire is not a viable option for the community.

I gave you a thoughtful reply and you give me a one sentence phrase that proves and means nothing. Also, do you mind trying not to be so rude to other members? This will cause the community leaders to close this thread, which will mean we can no longer discuss this as adults. I would like to continue our conversation rather than prematurely end it.
 
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