16/32 schedule

[TransportJockey]

We are trying to put together a schedule to go aware from the 24/24/24/96 schedule we are on. This isn't a popular decision but our county Board of Health (who we fall under) issued us the mandate to go away from 24s. We have been looking at multiple options, and myself and a coworker have brought up a 16-on/32-off schedule as a possible idea. The idea is to stagger start times and have an A/B/C schedule based on what time you want to come in. Is anyone aware of anywhere that is using this type of schedule? We are looking at as both a rotating with a kelly day so you don't have a 64 hour week, and w/out the Kelly day.
the picture below is the idea for the A/B/C shifts. It would be noted that our new pay schedule authorizes differential pay for night shift, so each shift would get a little diff pay.

 

[Summit]

That looks freaking terrible.
10p-2p?
2p-6a?

And are there going to be rotating shifts? Because those are demonstrably horrible.

Look, if you are going by evidence that shows that 24s are associated with more mishaps, injuries, accidents, and negative outcomes, then switching to a 16 is a ludicrous. Find one shred of evidence that shows that 16 is superior to 24?

In other industries we argue about whether 12s are safe. Only in EMS could a question like this come up.

 

[TransportJockey]

That looks freaking terrible.
10p-2p?
2p-6a?

And are there going to be rotating shifts? Because those are demonstrably horrible.

Look, if you are going by evidence that shows that 24s are associated with more mishaps, injuries, accidents, and negative outcomes, then switching to a 16 is a ludicrous. Find one shred of evidence that shows that 16 is superior to 24?

In other industries we argue about whether 12s are safe. Only in EMS could a question like this come up.

Not rotating between shifts, rotating in terms of if we put a Kelly day in there, there will be not set days. A shift is 6-22, B shift is 22-14, and C shift is 14-0600. Honestly, we are trying to toe that line of losing half our staff due to this mandate to drop 24s (even at our slow trucks) and go with something that the UBOH approves of. Our UHU is too busy for 24s to work across the service, but 16s w/ our UHU aren't bad, especially as we are adding another island 911 truck to accomidate increasing call volumes.
We actually have enough support of people who want to be on the various shifts that it must not be too horrible for some of us. I actually want B-shift (22-14)

 

[Summit]

That's a tough situation not to be able to use 24s on your slow trucks.

All I have to say is you better have one nice differential because most people are going to want A shift.

 

[TransportJockey]

That's a tough situation not to be able to use 24s on your slow trucks.

All I have to say is you better have one nice differential because most people are going to want A shift.

1/hr nights, 1.5/hr weekend. And A shift would get 4 hours diff, B shift 6, C shift 8 (I think that's what we figured it out to be). Plus the weekend diff pay. With the amount of students we have working for us, filling B and C shifts wouldn't be too hard. But we still have to make it into an official proposal to present to our admin staff.

 

[SpecialK]

Come on mate, 16 hours? You've got to be joking.

Even a 12 hour shift (which is standard in Australasia) is too long, even with rest breaks.

Ten hours max, including rest breaks.

 

[Handsome Robb]

Come on mate, 16 hours? You've got to be joking.

Even a 12 hour shift (which is standard in Australasia) is too long, even with rest breaks.

Ten hours max, including rest breaks.

More than a few places run 16s. I used to love my 16s with a staggered start time.


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[TransportJockey]

Come on mate, 16 hours? You've got to be joking.

Even a 12 hour shift (which is standard in Australasia) is too long, even with rest breaks.

Ten hours max, including rest breaks.

We were working 24 hour shifts with 12-18 calls per shift. The pay isn't high enough to go to 10 hour shifts, and unfortunately we don't get rest breaks in the US. 24 or 12 is the accepted practice here, and most likely will be for a while. With 16s, we would most likely run 8-10 calls per shift, which still leaves time for meals and rest. That's one reason the shifts are broken up like they are.

 

[TransportJockey]

More than a few places run 16s. I used to love my 16s with a staggered start time.


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I was just asking about it from a standpoint of 6x16 in 14 days w/ a kelly day in there. We can't find anything like that, and we are trying to put this together fast lol. I don't mind the 22-14 16s. If we don't have a Kelly day, it would give us 7x16 for the pay period, which would equate to an additonal 16 hours of OT than we get as base now. (we get 16/pay period now, this would give us 32/pay period)

 

[WolfmanHarris]

If you're rotating start times why have a shift that ends midday, in what I imagine is a peak time in most places. Have you run the numbers too see how that reflects demand? I imagine that truck is going to get hit with lots of shift overrun. In my system our peak demand trucks come on at 1200 and at 1400. It's your system, do what you want, but if you're getting away from 24's due to safety concerns (which are well documented) a 16hr doesn't really address this.

I work 12's and I appreciate that these too may be too long in some systems, but balanced against the impact of rotating shifts and my commute (my region is in the middle of a MASSIVE real estate bubble that has made it impossible for medics to move into the area), I actually think our 12's may be safer than the alternative.

 

[TransportJockey]

In our system, for some reason 1400 is a dead time. 75% of the time we have no calls being run. and when we do it's one truck that seems to be running. For right now, it's just a thought and nothign is set in stone.

 

[NomadicMedic]

How about 4 platoons and D-D-N-N-O-O-O-O

Still one of my favorite shift schedules if you're going away from 24s

 

[VentMonkey]

How about 4 platoons and D-D-N-N-O-O-O-O

Still one of my favorite shift schedules if you're going away from 24s

Assuming when you come back from your days off you don't alternate.

Our pilots, and I believe, all Air Methods pilots do a 7 day on/ 7 day off schedule where they work 7 straight days, then get 7 straight off, come back and work 7 nights straight and continue to alternate this way. They seem to like it overall, but to me, personally? Woof.

Though I suppose you get used to any set schedule after a while, and as long as my paycheck keeps coming, I'll make it work.

As for the 16's, I've never personally worked one, but it sounds quite intriguing. I'd be all about a 36-hour work week, with 4 days straight off. My wife did this in the hospital, and loved it.

 

[TransportJockey]

How about 4 platoons and D-D-N-N-O-O-O-O

Still one of my favorite shift schedules if you're going away from 24s

As in two days followed by two nights? No thank you lol. That kidn of rotating schedule got summarily shot down.

 

[VentMonkey]

As in two days followed by two nights? No thank you lol. That kidn of rotating schedule got summarily shot down.

Assuming you're housed in a station, and not street corner posting a lá SSM, it doesn't sound half bad, IMO.

 

[Tigger]

I used work at a place that did three 13s a week. Originally we were M/T/W or T/F/S. Sunday's were slow (mostly transfers) and they were covered by people on a 24 who also worked two eight hour day shifts a week. I suppose you could stagger the three 13s across all seven days but that would eliminate the four days off, which why I am sure you're people were pissed.

There was another Boston company that at the time did two 16s and an 8 hour shift a week. I wish I could remember how they did that, but they had full staffing seven days a week. Fallon is a large service with a bunch of 911 contracts, but I'm not sure they still do it.

 

[akflightmedic]

No solution for you but that proposed B shift is BS. The A and C could be pulled off, not ideal but possible. That B shift though...you are having someone push through an entire night shift and then to push through the morning crush when your body is naturally wanting to shut down after an all nighter. Sun coming up, fatigue setting in...and then throw in the morning rush hour (whatever that means in your area)...just bad juju standing here outside looking in.

 

[Summit]

You might go back to them with the reasonable argument that 24s are all about covering more time with less people. If they don't want 24s, they need more staff, which will cost more money.

 

[Tigger]

You might go back to them with the reasonable argument that 24s are all about covering more time with less people. If they don't want 24s, they need more staff, which will cost more money.

This is an important point. There is likely no solution to this issue if you can't move to a four platoon schedule. Though AMR Boulder did away with their 48s and put everyone on 12s. They did not add staff, but decided since a 12 hour shift was easier they could just run fewer cars with higher UHUs...

 

[dutemplar]

How about 4 platoons and D-D-N-N-O-O-O-O

Still one of my favorite shift schedules if you're going away from 24s

UGH. Probably my most despised schedule ever. Constant sleep deprivation and readjusting to whether I'm supposed to be awake or asleep.

Ye old one was probably my favorite for 12s.
T, Fr, Sa, Su, M, W, Th (off W, Th week one, then Tue and a four day weekend). If you need, flip it biweekly or monthly between days & nights.