Did I do everything I could have/did I do anything wrong?

[bstone]

WINNNER!!!! The same applies to ethics.

Which is why there are Ethic Committees at hospitals, to decide that the ethical thing to do is. In the case of someone needing emergency medical care, the scene being safe and you not providing the care, the ethical standard would be violated.

 

[bstone]

So, what is the punishment if I fail to abide by the AAOS "ethical code?"

If someone fails to follow the normal ethical standard and they are caught, then it can cause them to lose their license to practice. This has happened to many doctors. A semi-famous one lost his California medical license because he unethically treated a woman who came to him for fertility treatments.

 

[Sasha]

Where has a doctor or other HCP lost their license for not stopping at an accident in a state where there are no duty to act laws?

 

[ffemt8978]

Which is why there are Ethic Committees at hospitals, to decide that the ethical thing to do is. In the case of someone needing emergency medical care, the scene being safe and you not providing the care, the ethical standard would be violated.

Correct...but committees use more than one book as a basis for establishing their ethic requirements. You've stated the AAOS book has a moral and ethical requirement that applies in this scenario. Is that same requirement present in Brady and/or Mosby?

If not, how can it be a moral and ethical requirement for all EMT's to render aid in this situation?

 

[JPINFV]

ten lashing with a wet noodle!

 

[silver]

If someone fails to follow the normal ethical standard and they are caught, then it can cause them to lose their license to practice.

you are assuming everyone uses normative/principle ethics.

nobody expects the spanish inquisition.

 

[bstone]

Correct...but committees use more than one book as a basis for establishing their ethic requirements. You've stated the AAOS book has a moral and ethical requirement that applies in this scenario. Is that same requirement present in Brady and/or Mosby?

If not, how can it be a moral and ethical requirement for all EMT's to render aid in this situation?

I cannot tell you what the other books say. I have three times asked for JPFNIV to reply with a reliable source of his own demonstrating that there is debate on this topic. He has yet to make an on-topic reply. I eagerly await his reply, however.

 

[Tigger]

JPINFV, I await for you to provide a reliable source that states there is no moral or ethical requirement for an off-duty EMT to render care when care is needed. I am ignoring everything else you say for the sake of civility.

I await for you to actually show me where there is moral or ethical requirement for an off-duty EMT to render care when care is needed. I certainly do not remember reading that in my textbook.

Even if I did read it, I am not required to accept any sort of moral code. It is also not a condition of my certification or employment that I do so.

Furthermore, the argument that I accepted the code because I chose to include EMS in my knowledge base is at best, rather poor.

 

[bstone]

you are assuming everyone uses normative/principle ethics.

nobody expects the spanish inquisition.

While I would like to think that all EMTs adhere to the established ethical standard I know this is not the case. They are, afterall, human.

 

[ffemt8978]

I cannot tell you what the other books say. I have three times asked for JPFNIV to reply with a reliable source of his own demonstrating that there is debate on this topic. He has yet to make an on-topic reply. I eagerly await his reply, however.

He's made plenty of on-topic replies...they're just not what you want to hear.

 

[JPINFV]

Which is why there are Ethic Committees at hospitals, to decide that the ethical thing to do is. In the case of someone needing emergency medical care, the scene being safe and you not providing the care, the ethical standard would be violated.

I'd love to see a hospital ethics committee have a discussion about a physician who passes a car accident without stopping. Of course hospital ethics committees generally deal with more complex cases and have cases referred to them for consideration so that a physician isn't acting as a lone wolf. Things like, "When do we pull the plug" makes that committee rather important.

 

[bstone]

I await for you to actually show me where there is moral or ethical requirement for an off-duty EMT to render care when care is needed. I certainly do not remember reading that in my textbook.

Even if I did read it, I am not required to accept any sort of moral code. It is also not a condition of my certification or employment that I do so.

Furthermore, the argument that I accepted the code because I chose to include EMS in my knowledge base is at best, rather poor.

It's in the first two chapters of the AAOS book "Emergency Care and Transportation of the Sick". It's within the topics of medicolegal isues and talks about the ethical and moral responsibility to respond to emergencies when off duty.

 

[Tigger]

I cannot tell you what the other books say. I have three times asked for JPFNIV to reply with a reliable source of his own demonstrating that there is debate on this topic. He has yet to make an on-topic reply. I eagerly await his reply, however.

Don't confuse "off-topic" with "disagreement." It doesn't do much for your argument to challenge the other side with underhanded slights

 

[JPINFV]

If someone fails to follow the normal ethical standard and they are caught, then it can cause them to lose their license to practice. This has happened to many doctors. A semi-famous one lost his California medical license because he unethically treated a woman who came to him for fertility treatments.

Are we talking about Octomom now? After all, that's exactly like someone who fails to stop at the scene of an accident.

Furthermore, I'd love to see the AAOS try to get an EMT or paramedic's state license revoked because they broke the AAOS code of ethics.

 

[bstone]

I'd love to see a hospital ethics committee have a discussion about a physician who passes a car accident without stopping. Of course hospital ethics committees generally deal with more complex cases and have cases referred to them for consideration so that a physician isn't acting as a lone wolf. Things like, "When do we pull the plug" makes that committee rather important.

Hospital ethics committees would usually state that a doc who drives by an accident should not stop, as they are not trained as emergency responders. Physicians enjoy to leave emergencies to the properly trained (yes, I realize there are notable exceptions that we can begin to discuss, but let's not, ok?).

JPINFV, I still look forward to you supplying a reliable source that would indicate debate on the topic of stopping at the scene of an emergency where medical help was necessary, the scene was safe and you being present.

 

[silver]

While I would like to think that all EMTs adhere to the established ethical standard I know this is not the case. They are, afterall, human.

a

possibly one of many.

 

[bstone]

a

possibly one of many.

Please qualify your statement by providing a reliable source that indicates a different opinion on this matter. I look forward to seeing it.

 

[JPINFV]

He's made plenty of on-topic replies...they're just not what you want to hear.

Holy role reversal batman! It feels strange actually being on topic for a change.

 

[ClarkKent]

Shall I provide a page number for you?

If you where able to provide a page number, that might end all of this. I am just saying.

 

[bstone]

Are we talking about Octomom now? After all, that's exactly like someone who fails to stop at the scene of an accident.

Furthermore, I'd love to see the AAOS try to get an EMT or paramedic's state license revoked because they broke the AAOS code of ethics.

Yes, Octomom's fertility doctor lost his CA medical license because they ruled he acted unethically. He was also expelled from his professional association. Acting unethically can cause one to lose their professional certification or license.