Back Boarding

You can role in you hands and use it for rappeling rope.

I really hope you're kidding! Or that I've misunderstood you. But yes. Duct tape is fantastic. As far as blisters go, I prefer duct tape to any other type of dressing - mole skin, blister bandaids, etc.

vacuum in a stokes basket is a wonderful thing.

I've heard this too, and I definitely see the advantages. I know how awful it feels to be immobilized for 6 hours on a backboard in the comfort of the ER, and have been carried out on a backboard in a stokes or a thompson for 1-2 hours at a time in training. I can imagine it's much worse being on a backboard for a 6 hour carry out over rough terrain. I really wish my team had a nice one. We play with the one we have for training purposes, so people can learn to use one, but it does not go into the field.
 
I've heard this too, and I definitely see the advantages. I know how awful it feels to be immobilized for 6 hours on a backboard in the comfort of the ER,

I would have called a lawyer after 1 hour, and only because I am generous, there is no excuse at all for that.
 
I really hope you're kidding! Or that I've misunderstood you. But yes. Duct tape is fantastic. As far as blisters go, I prefer duct tape to any other type of dressing - mole skin, blister bandaids, etc.


Oh course I am!!! Duct tape is thee greatest thing on the planet for anything wilderness related. If it can't be done with duct tape, it can't be done. We recommend that all team members keep it in their packs, which leads to some funny moments where newbies open their packs in teh field and out comes rolling a 500 foot role of industrial strenght stuff!
 
Wasn't there a study conducted that found there was no benefit at all to pre-hospital immobilization?

I cant find it.
 
I would have called a lawyer after 1 hour, and only because I am generous, there is no excuse at all for that.

So here was the series of events -

1. I fell about 10 feet out of a tree (I was 14 at the time) right onto my lower back/butt. At first I felt fine.

2. Within an hour, I was in the worst pain I have ever experienced. Shooting pain from my waist down, extremely difficult to walk - nearly unable to, and weakness.

3. Shuffled into the ER. Was backboarded in triage.

4. Waited 6 hours for x-rays on a backboard. Staring at the ceiling.

5. X-rays clear. Was discharged with a diagnosis of sacroiliitis and sent home with vicodin and instructions to rest.

6. Improved over the next 48 hours. Normal within 72.

7. Still occasionally dealing with pain from the incident, 5 years later. It's not a big deal. but I'm supposed to be in physical therapy for this (but I'm a bad girl and stopped going).

I can't help but wonder if I'd be fine today had they not backboarded me and allowed me to be in a POC - which was definitely NOT lying supine, directly on the inflammed area on a hard surface. I would have rather been prone. It probably wouldn't matter long-term, but definitely in the short-term.
 
Wasn't there a study conducted that found there was no benefit at all to pre-hospital immobilization?

I cant find it.

EMS Responder article about the Cochrane Review

The readership is referred to the brief evidence-based emergency medicine report by Baez and Schiebel entitled, "Is Routine Spinal Immobilization an Effective Intervention for Trauma Patients?" which appeared in the Annals of Emergency Medicine in January 2006. The objective of this study was to quantify the effect of different methods of spinal immobilization (including immobilization versus no immobilization) on mortality, neurologic disability, spinal stability and adverse effects in trauma patients

The authors searched all databases where peer-reviewed medical journal articles would be found, along with the Cochrane Controlled Trial Register for evidence of scientific trials. Then they contacted experts in the field and eight manufacturers of spinal immobilization devices to determine whether they were aware of any sound evidence for use of these devices that would not otherwise appear in the on-line search. The authors were unable to find a single randomized controlled trial of actual injured patients to support the efficacy and effectiveness of spinal immobilization strategies and spinal immobilization techniques. In other words, there has never been a study in the medical literature that proves that any form of spinal immobilization or any technique or device used during such immobilization actually prevents spinal cord injury or lessens morbidity from spinal column injury.
 
Yes that was it thank you.
 
I read that prolonged immobilization may increase the risk of formation of clots and subsequent pulmonary emboli. Can anybody comment on that?
 
I read that prolonged immobilization may increase the risk of formation of clots and subsequent pulmonary emboli. Can anybody comment on that?

Yes, any time the body is immobile or have the inability to circulate stasis occurs and clot formation can occur, if circulates can become an embolus. Remember, when pressure is applied even laying down there is pressure placed upon the capillary system and poor circulation can occur.

R/r911
 
Wow, search this joint and you shall find lots on this.

Spinal immobilization is the backbone (pun intended) of EMT-dom because MVA victims were being dragged into hearses and zoomed to hospitals with c spine damage, or at other levels. This was in the days with no shock absorbing steering columns, seatbelts were an option, and of course no airbags, safety designed interiors, crumple zones, and forty foot wide highway shoulders (fewer trees to smash into).
Sasha, I read most of those studies last year trying to convince my coworkers to stop unnecessarily or improperly using spine boards etc. It is a marketing problem not a training one here. There was a study also which showed that continuation of spinal immobilization in the hospital after inital clarance by ED xray was not productive.
Folks need to remember that immobilization in the EMS sense and time frame is not a curative but a measure to prevent further exacerbation of a spinal injury during extrication and transport...in short, it is to protect the patient from US!!
 
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After extensivly searching this site and coming up empty and combing though PubMed i come to you guys. I know this is an old thread.

Myself and a few other providers, forward thinking EMTs and Medics have all approached our medical director individually about revising our SMR protocols. His response was, "Show me the evidence and we will talk" and ive found lots of statements like "It has long been known that long-term exposure to a c-collar and backboard can lead to decubitus ulcers and pain." Which doesnt help me.

Does anyone have links to actual studies which cite these kinds of claims?
 
After extensivly searching this site and coming up empty and combing though PubMed i come to you guys. I know this is an old thread.

Myself and a few other providers, forward thinking EMTs and Medics have all approached our medical director individually about revising our SMR protocols. His response was, "Show me the evidence and we will talk" and ive found lots of statements like "It has long been known that long-term exposure to a c-collar and backboard can lead to decubitus ulcers and pain." Which doesnt help me.

Does anyone have links to actual studies which cite these kinds of claims?

have you searched studies focusing on the NEXUS criteria? that might be a start.

EDIT: are you only looking for studies related to decub ulcers? in that case, I'm not sure.
 
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I can't help but wonder under what circumstances it might be appropriate (from a practical perspective, not so much a lawsuit perspective) for an EMT-B or FR to clear C-spine. Out in the woods, perhaps? In a military setting?
 
Why would it ever be inappropriate for an EMT to utilize criteria such as NEXUS or the Canadian C-Spine Rule?
 
I can't help but wonder under what circumstances it might be appropriate (from a practical perspective, not so much a lawsuit perspective) for an EMT-B or FR to clear C-spine. Out in the woods, perhaps? In a military setting?

You ever been strapped to a backboard for a long period of time? There's no reason to cause your patient unnecessary discomfort if we can clear their c-spine in the field.
 
I can't help but wonder under what circumstances it might be appropriate (from a practical perspective, not so much a lawsuit perspective) for an EMT-B or FR to clear C-spine. Out in the woods, perhaps? In a military setting?

1. Prolonged response time for the ambulance. For comfort reasons, who wants to be on the board unnecessarily for that long? Then there is the medical complications that we could be causing by doing so for hours on end (not everyone lives 5 minutes from a trauma center).

2. Prolonged transport time. Same reasons as above exist with the additional idea that you mentioned of "in the woods". Do you know how hard it is to carry a 200lb person down a trail for hours? If the neck can be cleared, the patient rested, and then assisted in walking out, then so much the better for us and for them. Of course, the comfort of the rescuers is not more important that proper medical care, but when it is not needed, backboarding will cause more damage to patient and rescuers in this case. Plus it ties up resources even in an urban setting.

3. Psychology. The mind is as important as the body. The result of a person being "immobilized" for hours on end lends itself to fear, anxiety, stress, and the belief that "the EMTs think something is wrong with me, my God, I might die!" People who think they will die, tend to find a way to achieve their goal.

4. "Because the protocol says so" should never be the standard for providing medical care. I have a protocol that is very limiting when it comes to selective immobilization (even for medics), and I can tell you right now, I have refused to board people because I KNEW it would cause more harm. Later I discuss the case with Medics and ER Docs who agree that what I did was "EMSA Wrong", but Medically Right. Had one like that 2 weeks ago. Should have boarded him per protocol and MOI, but the end diagnosis was a exacerbation of a previous cord compression and boarding the overweight patient would have sent his 10/10 pain to a 20/10 pain. That is bad medicine. Oh, and medics were 45 minutes out from me and had a 60 minute transport time on mountain roads; not in the patients best interests to be boarded, so why do it?

5. Patients in pain should not have more pain inflicted by EMTs just because the SOPs from the 1980's say "this is what you have to do or else they will all be paralyzed!" I have know rock climbers to fall hundreds of feet and then be slammed into the wall without any injuries. We have all seen the patient who rolls out of bed and breaks stuff. MOI and protocol can cause more harm than good if imposed on the good and experienced provider. That said, until standards are raised for certification and training, no EMT or EMR (in general) should not be granted the ability to think for themselves without their EMS Cookbook. I shudder the thought when it comes to some of the newbies coming out of the local college.
 
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[Stupid question]
 
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Interesting stuff! What did you mean by clearing C-spine and then assisting walking? Wouldn't walking imply no C-spine problems? Or could they develop?

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