Your experience using bystanders

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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We teach CPR rescuers to get a bystander to go call for help, guide them in, get an AED, go to Starbucks, whatever. MY experience is that bystanders are usually worthless or worse. Rarely, they have been a godsend.

What are your experiences?

PS: I teach my students to NEVER hand their cell phone to a bystander. In the excitement, you could get left all alone in the dark with no ride and no cell phone….:ph34r:
 

NomadicMedic

I know a guy who knows a guy.
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I've arrived to find bystanders doing kick *** CPR. I usually have then keep going while I get situated. If they're not doing CPR, they're in my way.
 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Anyone else?
One time at a scene with a car stopped on top of a knocked-down pedestrian, with rescue squad busy elsewhere, a cop had about five or six bystanders (mostly drunken college students and jocks) pick the front end of the car off the ground. Should have seen my partner's face when the street light lit him and the pt up!
 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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THAT was a dead end thread.

We went on a call for a teenager who OD'ed on Elavil, fighting us and trying to run lock herself in her bedroom. Four of us big guys are rassling this kicking screaming biting ninety pound kid on the landing of her stairs when her mother runs up, spouting rapid-fire German, and whips off her elastic-waistbanded pants, leaving her in her skivvies.

To this day….:unsure: :eek::blush::huh:
 

DrParasite

The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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I've arrived to find bystanders doing kick *** CPR. I usually have then keep going while I get situated. If they're not doing CPR, they're in my way.
Pretty much what he said.

For the most part, I try to use bystanders as little as possible. "here, hold this" is usually the most that happens. If I need help, I am going to call for uniformed personnel to help.

I did have a call where bystanders did help. Had a slightly heavy patient (about 450, maybe closer to 500), who needed to be carried out of the house. FD was on the way. me and my partner weren't able to move her on her own, but her three sons were all pushing 300 lbs (and bigger than me), and volunteered to help, so they assisted her to the chair, and we were able to get her to the ambulance. The engine met us at the scene, and followed us to the ER to assist with unloading her.

But otherwise, give me a report, than let me do my job. If the patient is stable, I am more than willing to wait and call for more appropriate resources, going as far as to turn down assistance from civiliarns who were volunteering ot help. Too much of a change of something going wrong and then who gets blamed for not waiting for the proper authorities to help?
 

Tigger

Dodges Pucks
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Some college kids rolled their SUV on the way to the mountains this fall on the mountain pass that separates our ambulance district from our neighbors. My ambulance had a 15 minute ride in, the next arriving ambulances were both 35 minutes out. One thrown from the vehicle, one self extricated but significantly altered, and one entrapped and pretty banged up. Both co-responding volunteer fire districts brought a grand total of two, maybe three EMTs and a handful of "once I took an MFR coursers."

A few of the bystanders had Wilderness First Responder training and we put them to work as much as possible. I had the self extricated patient by myself and I had a couple of bystanders help me get some oxygen on him and spinal him. My partner did the same with the ejected patient. If I recall we had one person in the back with us helping to get both of them exposed. We left the FD EMTs to attend to the entrapped patient until a mutual aid ALS flycar showed up. Once the helicopters showed up we thanked them, had them leave the ambulance and packaged them for flight and that was that.

We would have been screwed without them, the volly fire people sometimes lose their heads very easily on these scenes because of how infrequent they are. The bystanders in contrast were eager to help and weren't busy trying to boss us around.
 

Handsome Robb

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I've had bystanders be more helpful than the FD, both career and volunteer. I've also seen horribly annoying bystanders that just make things worse. I don't care that your aunt's girlfriend's mom's sister's boyfriend's brother is a trauma surgeon. I really don't.

I'm going to reference a major incident as well. The Reno Air Races. A civilian pilot transported multiple patients in a Huey following one of our helos in the pattern. That's just what happened in the air. We moved 56 patients in 63 minutes. I wasn't there but from the reports I've read and things I've been told it was incredible to see.
 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Some college kids rolled their SUV on the way to the mountains this fall on the mountain pass that separates our ambulance district from our neighbors. My ambulance had a 15 minute ride in, the next arriving ambulances were both 35 minutes out. One thrown from the vehicle, one self extricated but significantly altered, and one entrapped and pretty banged up. Both co-responding volunteer fire districts brought a grand total of two, maybe three EMTs and a handful of "once I took an MFR coursers."

A few of the bystanders had Wilderness First Responder training and we put them to work as much as possible. I had the self extricated patient by myself and I had a couple of bystanders help me get some oxygen on him and spinal him. My partner did the same with the ejected patient. If I recall we had one person in the back with us helping to get both of them exposed. We left the FD EMTs to attend to the entrapped patient until a mutual aid ALS flycar showed up. Once the helicopters showed up we thanked them, had them leave the ambulance and packaged them for flight and that was that.

We would have been screwed without them, the volly fire people sometimes lose their heads very easily on these scenes because of how infrequent they are. The bystanders in contrast were eager to help and weren't busy trying to boss us around.

Wow! Excellent.
 

takl23

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A few months back I wasn't working but was the 3rd or so person to stop at an accident on the highway where an 18 year old was ejected and bounced his head off the pavement. People looked like they were trying to help so I asked (and prayed) someone was a EMT/nurse/MD, etc. No one was. The victim was alive thankfully so I did what little I could and the bystanders found some info on the kid in his car and directed traffic around the scene till the highway patrol arrived followed several minutes later by local EMS.

The bystanders found his college ID and called the school who then were going to call parents. Not to bad on their part.
 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Yes and no. Good initiative. Bad having bystanders going through vehicles and personal defects. There are people who will stop and steal at an accident site. Maybe law enforcement should do the notification?
 

Handsome Robb

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Yes and no. Good initiative. Bad having bystanders going through vehicles and personal defects. There are people who will stop and steal at an accident site. Maybe law enforcement should do the notification?


I bolded the important part. The school knows nothing about what is going on. Let the proper authorities make that notification. If I'm on duty I have no problem doing it. Off duty it's neither my place nor do I have any interesting involving myself in a complete stranger's problems.
 
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STXmedic

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Last shift we had a guy go down right in front of us while we were the only unit on scene. I was thrilled to find out one of the ladies at the residence was his CNA home health aid, so I stuck her on the chest to perform CPR. It took two compressions for me to kick her off. You would think somebody medically trained, even a CNA, would know that CPR is not effective when you use 4 fingers and have a compression depth of less than a centimeter. Wishful thinking on my part.

If I'm short-handed, I'll gladly use a bystander for CPR if they have any sort of training (even just a CPR class). Just like the CNA above, I'll gladly move them aside if they prove incompetent, though. I've had a small handful of bystanders be of use, but usually we have enough manpower that its not even a consideration.
 

CPRinProgress

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One time I went to an retirement home for a women who had a syncopal episode. Myself and my partner were strapping the woman to the stretcher and multiple bystanders (all of whom were above the age of 70) started yelling at me to not worry about the straps but to put more blankets on her. Then one of the employees told them to shut up and that we knew what we were doing then told me that if she had muzzles she would have used them. Lol
 

chaz90

Community Leader
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Then one of the employees told them to shut up and that we knew what we were doing then told me that if she had muzzles she would have used them. Lol

Umm, yikes. I'm offended for the senior residents, and I wasn't even there. I mean, I guess they were totally out of line for even daring to suggest their sick friend/neighbor be kept warm and comfortable. Not saying the straps were unnecessary or that you guys didn't know what you were doing, but I don't see any problem at all with their recommendation for additional blankets. This employee was totally out of line with her comment.
 

CPRinProgress

Forum Lieutenant
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Umm, yikes. I'm offended for the senior residents, and I wasn't even there. I mean, I guess they were totally out of line for even daring to suggest their sick friend/neighbor be kept warm and comfortable. Not saying the straps were unnecessary or that you guys didn't know what you were doing, but I don't see any problem at all with their recommendation for additional blankets. This employee was totally out of line with her comment.
I completely agree, I didn't know how to respond to that comment so I just put a few more blankets on the pt and left. I just thought it was funny the way the other residents said to "forget about the straps, just put blankets on her."
 
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Household6

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I've arrived on scene to bystanders doing great compressions.. They were on the phone with dispatch, and dispatch talked them through it.. I had actually responded alone in my POV, and the rig was another 15 minutes out.. It was great to have them there doing compressions while I did other things..

I like to think that most bystanders genuinely desire to help, they just don't know how. I think a loud commanding voice with simple direction and clear orders does great with unskilled bystanders...

Trying to tell fire what you think they should be doing is a whole 'nother story in my experience.
 

SandpitMedic

Crowd pleaser
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If I'm Off duty it's neither my place nor do I have any interesting involving myself in a complete stranger's problems.

So this isn't you then?


Me neither

 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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I've arrived on scene to bystanders doing great compressions.. They were on the phone with dispatch, and dispatch talked them through it.. I had actually responded alone in my POV, and the rig was another 15 minutes out.. It was great to have them there doing compressions while I did other things..

I like to think that most bystanders genuinely desire to help, they just don't know how. I think a loud commanding voice with simple direction and clear orders does great with unskilled bystanders...

Trying to tell fire what you think they should be doing is a whole 'nother story in my experience.

Hey, I used to resemble that remark!
But, yeah….especially when we/they were busy inflating the CPR victim's stomach.
 
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mycrofft

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Living in California, I'm in dread of a bystander starting to lay flares at a rural accident scene surrounded by dry grass and dead leaves.

Spotted a small fire starting up on a center divider once, hot and windy. Stopped the car, called 911 while I popped the trunk and got my CERT gloves and a lug wrench out to try to smother or retard it. Bystanders in their cars handed me their water bottles to help knock it down! Good thing, too. We did it, the fire engine overhauled and said "Good Job!".
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