Why we don't talk.

[Reynolds One]

That's a good point. Small world, and word gets around.

 

[Seirende]

I think a lot of us don't talk about our problems or stress or suicidal thoughts because we've seen how disrespectful our EMS coworkers can be when they encounter the mentally ill. And we've all been in the facilities where xyprexa flows like water and the medicated zombies shamble from room to room. Scary to ever think about winding up there. After listening to an EMT make fun of a patient we just dropped off, I'm not sharing anything ...

I have around five people that I can talk to when I'm having a rough time. These are all people that I've know for years and trust completely. EMS or not, I don't trust just anyone to respond appropriately when I tell them that I am hurting at that moment. When I'm outside of that stress/depression/suicidal ideation, I'm happy to be open about my mental health struggles, because it might help someone else or give someone a new perspective. When I hear fellow EMS professionals denigrate the mentally ill, it's not so much that it prevents me from talking, but that it gives my depressed brain another way to tell me that I'm obviously a worthless piece of sh*t. Words hurt.

On the positive side, I've received a ton of support through words. Sometimes I just need someone on the outside to tell me that my brain is lying. Side note: shoutout to EMTLife for letting me know that I'm not the only one in EMS who goes through these things. I'm not a wuss after all!

The point I am trying to make is that in those situations is that losing a career for seeking treatment can lead to actual suicide just like the PTSD itself. It is a recognized psychological fact that especially for men their identity is tied more strongly to their career and losing the career can cause depression which is a major risk factor for suicide. It is a catch 22.

Even apart from predisposing a person to losing the desire to live, having your worth/identity tied to something like your job just doesn't seem healthy.

You've never worked with someone who, after transporting a psych patient, would say stupid, insensitive things like "God, that guy was a ****ing psycho. What kind of idiot would try to kill themselves over... [blah blah blah]"?

Must be nice...

That would be nice...

After years of trying to pretend that depression and suicidal ideation don't really affect my life, I've come to the realization that I need to work with what I have. When I'm in a bad place, I need to talk to my trustworthy friends and stay away from certain conversations with people who might knock me further down. When I'm in a good place, I can go and have those conversations and just generally aggressively ignore stupidity. If a service doesn't hire me or fires me because of my mental illness -- first, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal; second, probably not a good place to work anyway, and they're out one good provider. There are plenty of employers in this field.

 

[chriscemt]

I mean, think about a situation like that, if an employee was fired (after admitting to suffering psychologically and wanting treatment) and then went the legal route and sued for wrongful dismissal/termination.

You don't have to be fired to suffer negatively from what your employer might know about your mental health.

 

[QRScomplex]

It's one of those contradictions that I see in EMS that I don't see in my day job in the private sector. If someone needs help to do their job you give it to them. You put them on a track to try and address the problem but the goal is always to try and set the individual up for success and not failure. Sometimes even with the best of intentions I have to make the assessment that the person isn't suited to do the job. But that's only after trying to work with the individual to overcome the issue.

In EMS we are trained to care for others. To look at their needs and to try and make their terrible day less of one. But what we don't do is a good job of taking care of each other. It's ok to be empathetic and understanding and sensitive to a patient but not one another? It would seem that we would take care of each other first and the patient second or at least take care of each other as well as we take care of our patients. If one of us has an issue we all should share in that issue. Why don't we want to encourage each other to talk about the issues?

One of the issues I see in changing this paradigm is the desire in ourselves to fix or solve problems. EMS are trouble shooters. We look at problems and through the practice of medicine apply intervenes to improve the situation. However when dealing with issues of the mind a lot of times what we need aren't problem solvers but people to be good listeners and empathetic. Many times the problems that we face mentally can't be fixed with some magic bullet comment or adage. It takes time to talk through it, to understand it and most importantly to know there is a support system in place to ask for help and to receive the help that will most benefit that person (since everyone's needs are different we can't apply a one size fits all methodology).

We need to do a better job to not only say we support each other but to actually then do support each other. That isn't to make a joke of everything and to keep things jovial at the station. That isn't to carry on a stoic bravado to save face. That isn't to bury your emotions to give the false sense of stability. To make this change we need to both be comfortable and able to be approachable by someone in need but to also make yourself vulnerable to openly and candidly talk about your own issues with others. It's a two way street here and it requires a change in how we support each other and how we let others in to our own inner workings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Daniel G]

You wanna talk about suicides?
SWIM was a patient at Walter Reed/ Abrams Hall. Ive been around alot of suicides.

I never like remember it as taboo, but rather a rational/irrational choice.

 

[Daniel G]

You wanna talk about suicides?
SWIM was a patient at Walter Reed/ Abrams Hall. Ive been around alot of suicides.

I never like remember it as taboo, but rather a rational/irrational choice.

Alot of those people were in psychological pain/hell. I think about it all the time, except i have way better reasons to live.

 

[Daniel G]

suicide because you lost your job or because of your job is dramatic?
SWIM was a patient at Walter Reed/ Abrams Hall. Ive been around alot of suicides.

I never like remember it as taboo, but rather a rational/irrational choice.

 

[Daniel G]

I keep messing this up when i edit. Sorry

 

[DrParasite]

On the positive side, I've received a ton of support through words. Sometimes I just need someone on the outside to tell me that my brain is lying. Side note: shoutout to EMTLife for letting me know that I'm not the only one in EMS who goes through these things. I'm not a wuss after all!

You think your the only person in EMS who is crazy? oh please, I took an abnormal psych class, that listed various mental illnesses, as well as their symptoms..... the professor couldn't understand why i was smiling so much; my supervisor showed signs of 3 of them, my partner had others, most of my coworkers demonstrated the signs of one disorder or another. And that doesn't include the functional alcoholics.....

But in all seriousness, I totally agree, talking about things is career suicide. If you can't handle A, can you handle B or C? if you are shaken up after A, can I trust you to handle A again?

Even worse, would you want to be partnered up with the EMT or Paramedic who has spent time in the psych ward? Or what would you think of a coworker who you saw in the psych ward? It's a small world, and people talk, probably more than they should, even if they don't know all the facts.

I love this guy's art work (http://www.dansunphotos.com/), because most of us have been in this position :

If you can't do the job because of what the profession has done to your mind, what options do you have? And with many EMS workers working 60 to 80+ hour weeks to pay their bills, the problems don't go away, but they just try to ignore them to see what happens. and You can imagine the results

 

[Tigger]

But in all seriousness, I totally agree, talking about things is career suicide. If you can't handle A, can you handle B or C? if you are shaken up after A, can I trust you to handle A again?

This to me is the root of the issue. You can be roughed up by bad calls but still be able to run them. There is no correlation between the two but we assume there must be.

Even worse, would you want to be partnered up with the EMT or Paramedic who has spent time in the psych ward? Or what would you think of a coworker who you saw in the psych ward? It's a small world, and people talk, probably more than they should, even if they don't know all the facts.

I had a partner that did, there were no issues. She got the treatment she needed and was a fine paramedic and easy to work with. But might as well just assume that she'd be damaged goods right?

So many make assumptions about mental illness and the ways people cope. Not everyone copes the same way and to suggest that someone is a weaker provider for the way sought help would be unfortunate.

 

[RocketMedic]

I've literally never thought about ghosts or anything in the back of trucks. I won't lay on the cot because dirty people get put there, but I have never, ever had a problem with ghosts or any of that crap.

 

[cruiseforever]

I had a severe mental breakdown approx. 20 years ago. I was going thru a divorce that I did not want. A couple of my co-workers became concerned about my time off activities. They voiced their concern to our Medical Director and Ambulance Director. I was asked by them to be assessed by a mental health worker. I was diagnosed as being depressed and placed on Paxil. It helped a little.

Until the day it struck me on how much I was missing my kids. I was going shopping for a birthday present for my daughter and I can mark the spot on the highway to this day, that if I had a gun or a semi was on the road I would have used them to kill myself. Knowing that I had sunk that low, I drove to ambulance director's office and told him what had just happened. He drove me 30 miles to be admitted to a pysch. unit. While I was there I was visited by a couple of close co-workers and felt very supported by them. I am very blessed to work at a place that does care about it's employees. But with that being said I will not say anything to new co-workers.

I feel working EMS gives me a reason to keep moving forward. I have worked as a medic for over 25 years. I have never had a thought of harming myself due to a call or a build up of stress due to EMS. If anything it keeps showing me how good I have it.

 

[ViolynEMT]

I think that looking for someone to talk to should be seen as a healthy thing. It is worse to keep things inside because of the fear that one will be seen as weak or unfit. They may end up unfit to do the job if they DON'T talk about it. If something affects one of us, it doesn't automatically qualify us as unfit for the profession. That is the bottom line. I think what DEMedic (correct me if I'm wrong) was saying is that we should feel "safe" talking to someone without getting a stigma attached to us. Being affected by a call or by calls does not mean we are mentally ill or weak. We are human. Keeping it inside could cause mental illness. We need to stop judging and start supporting one another.

 

[sack jears]

I'm bipolar and the funny thing is I've been on the other end of that psych hold and I've also been on zyprexa. I wouldn't want what happened to me to happen to anyone else, and I definitely wouldn't want it to happen to me again. I don't have a problem with speaking out and already having a psychologist is helpful. I don't know what it's gonna look like when I start applying to agencies and they start looking into my past regarding my mental health. I hope it doesn't screw me over in the long run. It's sad to be persecuted over something that's happening internally that isn't your fault at all.

 

[ViolynEMT]

I'm just going to put this out there. I'm here if anyone needs to talk. No judgement. I'm a good listener and I like to think that I'm compassionate.

 

[zzyzx]

"There were medics who came forward in Canada and had their licenses pulled."

Huh, what? This idea that seeking treatment for depression or anxiety related to your EMS job will get you fired is nonsense. Your employer does not have a right to monitor your medical records. Nor would an employer be able to fire you simply because he overheard that you were under treatment for depression. This would make for a great lawsuit if they did.

That said, if your disability was preventing you from doing your job, then your employer could have legal standing to fire you, though even that would be a complicated situation that an employer would have to handle with care.

 

[TransportJockey]

"There were medics who came forward in Canada and had their licenses pulled."

Huh, what? This idea that seeking treatment for depression or anxiety related to your EMS job will get you fired is nonsense. Your employer does not have a right to monitor your medical records. Nor would an employer be able to fire you simply because he overheard that you were under treatment for depression. This would make for a great lawsuit if they did.

That said, if your disability was preventing you from doing your job, then your employer could have legal standing to fire you, though even that would be a complicated situation that an employer would have to handle with care.

The college of paramedics in their province pulled their tickets. I'll have to look wgeb im not drink

 

[Drax]

Just talk, talk about things before they build up. Obviously not with your partner if they're a douche. Talk with your spouse, your best friend, a seasoned co-worker, mom or dad, instructors, strangers, strangers on a forum. Even if the call was just weird and not bad, even if the call was just bad and not weird. It is critical to speak up and to do so immediately, like debriefing immediately following whatever call, via phone, via anyone you can get a hold of if it is that bad.

Why talk even if it isn't bothering you? Well, it may be preemptive medicine, it might be practice before the big game.

If you are able to talk to your partner, you might be speaking up when they think they can't.

The scenario where the EMT was making fun of the patient you just dropped off...maybe they're coping with it the way that they know and maybe you could show them another way.

It might be rather obvious if the conversation randomly turns someone off, but I think you'll still get something out of it.

 

[johnrsemt]

I really miss working places with people that have 'been there, done that'.
Used to be that we could sit and talk about bad runs, bad patients etc and that would lessen a lot of stress.
Now I work with people that don't have a lot of experience, and if you try to talk then some of them take the info and try to get you in trouble with it

 

[DrParasite]

This to me is the root of the issue. You can be roughed up by bad calls but still be able to run them. There is no correlation between the two but we assume there must be.

I had a partner that did, there were no issues. She got the treatment she needed and was a fine paramedic and easy to work with. But might as well just assume that she'd be damaged goods right?

So many make assumptions about mental illness and the ways people cope. Not everyone copes the same way and to suggest that someone is a weaker provider for the way sought help would be unfortunate.

I think I was a little unclear, and I will apologize if my post insinuated something other than my intent. What I tried to say (and now see how it wasn't made clear) was the perception of speaking about rough calls is that you can't handle the next one. It's an assumption in EMS, one often based more on rumors and speculation instead of reality and facts (but I know many EMS agency's rumor mills which spread inaccurate information faster than the local junior high school).

And for the record, one of my favorite people to work with suffered from depression, so much so that he jumped off one of our local bridges when he was younger. 15 or so years later, he's on the right medication, he's earned his masters degree, and he's one of the few people who I used to look forward to working with, because he was both a competent provided and a fun partner.

I will agree with you, many people will dismiss someone with a history of mental illness without getting to know them, or in a job interview, or if you are assigned to them and the rumor mill has already tarnished the guys reputation.