What do you guys think

[EMTelite]

Hey guys whats up...

Well heres my question
I just went through NCTI's EMT-B program final and I passed but I am wondering if other schools have the same policy as this one


With this school you need to have above a 75% throughout the whole class
Next you need to score a 75% on the test or above or you fail the class
(even if you have had a 100% in the class the whole time)

Just wondering if alot of schools do this beacuse my medic on my rideout seemed to think it was BS


And also I was wondering if anyone from so-cal had any suggestions for me on a medic school?

Thanks everyone

 

[akflightmedic]

The school I taught at had the same policy only it was 80% required.

 

[VentMedic]

In the read academic world 75% is barely C level which is considered mediocre at best. That average would not get you admitted to very many college level programs especially in health care which are considered very competitive now. However, fortunately for you, entry into some Paramedic schools may be pass/fail since they just want the EMT-B card.

In Florida, an 80% is preferred since that is what is required to pass the state Paramedic exam. So schools, if the EMT-B is taught in a traditional college, may start those higher standards early.

 

[EMTinSocal]

My class required 80% on all written tests and 100% proficiency on all skills. You fail to verbalize or perform just the BSI aspect on the skill test you fail. As far as EMT-P schools in Socal there are quite a few to choose from. Palomar CC, Crafton Hills, Riverside CC, are all reputable programs. Most are in your area area if you still reside in Murrieta. Typically you need 6-12 months experience as an EMT-B and pass an A&P class just to get in line. I'm sure you know that NCTI has one as well but its rather expensive compared to the local CC route. Good luck.

 

[reaper]

Yes, College programs in FL require an 80% or higher on all tests and an 80% or higher on finals.

As Vent stated, that is one reason why the state won't use NREMT for Paramedic. NREMT requires a 70%, but the state requires an 80%. I think it should be no less then a 80% anywhere.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

80% on every test (allowed to toss one less than 80% test)
80% on Mid Term (no exceptions)
80% on the Class Final (no exceptions)
80% on the State Certifying Test (no exceptions)
100% on Skills

All those numbers were required to pass the class, but anyonee who feel short wasn't automaticly kicked out... they could get the education, but would have to take the class again to get their EMT. If we failed the state testing/skills we were allowed to retest once.

In my area we have a huge number of FFs that take the class because "they have to", but don't really want to work medical, so it is interesting to see their scores after a few weeks because none are prepared to actualy work a little for it. We had one really notable kid in my class who was usuing his FF budies to memorize and barely pass weekly tests but was completely unprepared for mid term. He got a 21% on that test, which was primarily cardiac and resp! Wouldn't kick him out of the class, but he was told (publicly) that he would not be allowed to take part in clinicals because "we can't subject the public to your 'care'" and that he would not get anytime of course completion of cert off this class. He became a Forest Service FF (no medical response).

Fair? HELL YA! IMHO we should bump it up to 90%. A 75% you can pass by just being average... that's the type of care I want my family subjected to. At 80% you are just above average... not much better. At 90% you have proven to pretty much know all your stuff. And, if I rememner my class, those 5-6 out of 24 that ended the class with an average over 90% where the only ones I would trust.

 

[VentMedic]

In my area we have a huge number of FFs that take the class because "they have to", but don't really want to work medical, so it is interesting to see their scores after a few weeks because none are prepared to actualy work a little for it.

EMT-B is not much more than an advanced first-aid class. Due to the nature of a FF's job and rescue situations, they should have training that is the equivalent of first-aid. Even employees who work in some industries such as steel mills, logging and coal mines go through almost the same number or more hours of first-aid training just to provide assistance to their own in their line of work. They are also held to a high standard and they know it because they depend on each other. If this has not been emphasized to the FFs in your area, then someone or some system has failed.

 

[exodus]

We had 100% on skills (We got 1 re-try) if we messed up. and 80% in class, and 80% ON EVERY TEST, One retry per tests.

BUT. Idk if this is true or not, or if it's just rumor, if you get under 80 on the test, and it was a close score, we would have like a board interview of a few of the instructors, and the owner of the school, where they would verbally test us on things, and have us explain our actions and why we would do such. Idk if it's true or not since I didn't have to do it...

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

EMT-B is not much more than an advanced first-aid class. Due to the nature of a FF's job and rescue situations, they should have training that is the equivalent of first-aid. Even employees who work in some industries such as steel mills, logging and coal mines go through almost the same number or more hours of first-aid training just to provide assistance to their own in their line of work. They are also held to a high standard and they know it because they depend on each other. If this has not been emphasized to the FFs in your area, then someone or some system has failed.

Agreed. The problem in my area is that EMT is virtually required for anyone wanting to work Fire. But 90% of the FFs I know/work with/have taught, have absolutely no interest in EMS... NONE! They all walk in to the classes with that "I'm gonna fight fires and cut apart cars so I don't need to take this class" attitude. You can quickly tell which ones are interested in being the best they can be and which ones are there because they have to be there. The 80% requirement helps to weed out some of the deadbeats that are gonna be a liability on the streets... but how much better would it be if we upped it to 90%? In my class, where only 5-6 got 90% of better, that would have meant that only 1 FF (out of 15) would have made it. Now, this is not an attack on FIRE. I know many good FF/EMTs in my area, but I know 10 times as many bad ones. Considering that 90% of their calls are medical, it would make sense that they would want to be the best they can be... but (IMHO based on 8 years observation) that just ain't the case in my little corner of paradise. I often tell newbie EMTs that they have a choice... do they want to be EMTs? or do they just want to hold an EMT certification. My experience is that any idiot can get an EMT cert. 75% or 80% passing really isn't that hard. But those aren't the ones who I want treating a family member. I want an EMT who (despite being at a lowly BLS level or a First Aider in some opinions) strives to be the best they can be at that level. They take the additional A&P, Cardiology, Pre-Paramedic classes and use their knowledge to provide the best Medical Care they can, unlike many of the FFs I am around. Sad but true... I have made it perfectly clear to family, friends, and fellow responders (including FF) that, in the event of an emergency, I WILL NOT be treated by any FFs... the risk is too great when dealing with those that (largely) do not give a damn.

The point is... Contrary to the OPs Partners opinion, 75% is not BS if the goal is to turn out the best providers they can. In fact, a 75% requirement is BS for the exact opposite reason. 90% or more proves (to me) that you will be a better than average EMT and give a damn. 75% proves (to me) that you will be an average EMT certification holder that shouldn't touch a patient EVER! My 10 year old nephew could memorize enough to pass an EMT class at 75%! we talk about how the volunteers keep the educational standards for EMT low, but I would contest that it is the FFs like the ones in my area that help keep it low... why make it harder to get their EMT when they need it to be a FF, and we need the FFs? Make it a requirement for all FF to be MFR only (1/3 the class in my area)... it's all they can do in my area anyway.

IMHO. Ignore the rambling of this tired voice. And if you are a FF/EMT... my local FFs are no reflection on you... I would hope that you are NOTHING like them... as evidenced by your presense on an EMS forum! Even though I disagree with many of my local FFs lack of interest in EMS, I still consider them by brothers.

 

[VentMedic]

Agreed. The problem in my area is that EMT is virtually required for anyone wanting to work Fire.

As it should be required. Even before it became officially EMT-B, FFs had to go through some form of first-aid training.

But 90% of the FFs I know/work with/have taught, have absolutely no interest in EMS... NONE!

They do not have to work on an ambulance to know basic first-aid. Many lay people have taken more hours of first-aid training than the EMT-B at the ARC just for their own personal knowledge. Again, if this has not been stressed in your area that it is for the FFs own protection and ability to care for each other on the fire scene, then your system has greatly failed your FFs. Some do have to be told of the importance of knowing first-aid since many have yet to get through the fire academy to understand this.

Let me put this a little clearer which will probably ruffle some egos.

The EMT-B in the U.S., as the standards are at present, should be no more than a first responder...period.

 

[Ridryder911]

Numbers and percentages are all relative. One can write a test that barely anyone can make an 80% and another in which is easy to pass. The emphasis in education is to ensure that the student has mastered the intent and the level of expectation knowing that the scope and objectives of the course has also been met.

R/r 911

 

[Sasha]

Hey guys whats up...

Well heres my question
I just went through NCTI's EMT-B program final and I passed but I am wondering if other schools have the same policy as this one


With this school you need to have above a 75% throughout the whole class
Next you need to score a 75% on the test or above or you fail the class
(even if you have had a 100% in the class the whole time)

Just wondering if alot of schools do this beacuse my medic on my rideout seemed to think it was BS


And also I was wondering if anyone from so-cal had any suggestions for me on a medic school?

Thanks everyone

We had to maintain an 80% or above, not only in medic but all of the gen ed classes.

And why would you think it's BS? Would you want someone treating you who had skimmed through EMT with a 70% average? Not that an 80% or better guartentees competency or anything, but it's more likely than one with a 70% average.

People who did below the 80 always claimed to be bad test takers. I've noticed something, people who don't know the material are always the ones who claim they're bad test takers.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

I make no arguuemets against what you say, Vent (except for likening EMT to First Aid - debate I don't need again - as is evidenced by the FFs in my area I wouldn't trust with a band aid).

But, vent, wouldn't you agree that First Responder (50 hours) would be far more suitable to these FFs who have no interest in EMS instead of making them go through a 150 hour EMT course that they have no interest in? What can't they do at that level that EMTs cant? It is just a knowledge differnce. As EMT's they hold the same cert Ambulance folk do, but don't take the time to be the best they can be and strive to be better. They memorized a few facts, memorized the skills, sat through 150 hours, and pass a test at 80%!!! Then you have the students that not only attend 150 hours, but particiapte in it, spend twice as much time at home studying, arranging ride alongs to see how it all comes together in the real world, take those additional A&P/Basic Cardiology/Pre-Paramedic classes (putting in as much time there as in EMT), and jumping at every CE class they can! That is my objection to making EMT mandatory for FFs and to calling all EMTs First Aid Providers. While my scope of practice isn't much higher than a First Aiders... I strive to be better (knowledge wise) as an EMT even though my life circumstances make Medic school of PA a long way off. First Aid skills? Yes, by law as an EMT. First Aid knowledge? NEVER... and in EMS the brain is the greatest tool we have... no matter what the level of care we provide.

My point stands... 75% or 80% is a joke! I do not want someone to by let loose on the world who mearly passed a class. I expect the people I work with to EXCEL at their chosen line of work. Maybe an unrealistic expectation, but it shouldn't be...

 

[HotelCo]

Minimum required to pass:

78% overall.

60 clinical hours.

 

[Sasha]

hold the same cert Ambulance fold do, but don't take the time to be the best they can be and strive to be better. They memorized a few facts, memorized teh skills, sat through 150 hours, and pass a test at 80%!!!

Sounds like a few that were in my EMT class, but they had no desire to go fire, either.

 

[VentMedic]

But, vent, wouldn't you agree that First Responder (50 hours) would be far more suitable to these FFs who have no interest in EMS instead of making them go through a 150 hour EMT course that they have no interest in?

Why continue to lower the standards? Look at the MFR in other countries or at least in the countries that have them. Their hours may exceed the EMT-B. By the way, the B stands for BASIC.

It sounds as if your area may not have told the future FFs why first-aid is important.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Sounds like a few that were in my EMT class, but they had no desire to go fire, either.

I honestly wonder why some people even choose emergency services as a career choice. Must be for the flashing lights and the "huge pay checks" because some like this don't really seem to want to serve the public and help people. SAD! Which is why I still believe that a higher passing requirment is a must if we want to weed out the future disservices to EMS and really be taken seriously as a profession.

 

[Sasha]

Because you get to sleep with hot nurses and be a hero!

 

[VentMedic]

Because you get to sleep

...while being paid is probably what happens more than the other part of that sentence.

 

[exodus]

Because you get to sleep with hot nurses and be a hero!

WE don't have any hot nurses here, but we do get to flirt with hot nurses in the er!