What are we attracting to enter EMS?

I agree with most of Rid's contentions and I agree that something should be done. Here in NJ, it's starting at the Paramedic level. Two out of the 4 paramedic programs in the state only offer the curriculum as an associate degree program. They won't admit a certificate-only student unless they already have an associate's or a bachelor's. A third program gives you the option of an associates but it's not required. They're hoping that eventual employer demand will bring the other programs around. I'm told that long-term plans include the option of going to a 4year program. I started as a medic student this month. I have a long background in health care. I was originally trained as a chiropractor. In school I had medical school level anatomy, physiology, pathology and better than medical school level radiology followed by 18 years of clinical practice. While there is room for improvement, I am impressed with the level of medical knowledge required of the paramedic students. I think we're going in the right direction but we still have a long way to go.

All ALS programs in the state are hospital-based so the Fire/EMS problems discussed are not a significant issue at the ALS level.

The BLS is another story. There are BLS providers in this state who are doing it for many reasons. Some are dedicated emergency workers (both paid and volunteer). Many are earning a buck until they get into a FF job or police academy. Some are EMTs because they need to be to keep their FF job. Some are just earning a buck because they got an EMT card and are not qualified to do anything else that can make that much money (yes, believe it or not, BLS is actually a descent paying job here). Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens and pretend to be heroes (both paid and volunteer).

Overall, I think that BLS training stinks. It is too easy to get in. The students are taught how to do things but not why to do them (more importantly why not to do them). There is minimal instruction on A&P. They are taught a few buzzwords and sent out into the world thinking they know what they're doing. The ones that are interested in learning and who are fortunate enough to have good role models become very good EMTs (both paid and volunteer). The rest of them are the reason Rid started this discussion. I think the EMT Basic class needs to be longer (that sound you just heard was all the volunteer squads in the state screaming Noooooo....) with more of an emphasis on A&P (Or make at least A&P I a prerequisite). There should be better screening of applicants (although that is of limited benefit - the worst sociopath can behave for a half-hour interview). The standards for EMT-B educators need to be drastically raised. While we have some very good instructors in the academies near me, others shouldn't be allowed within 100 ft of a patient and at least 300 ft from a student.

I have disagreed with Rid about many things on this forum before but, try as I might, I can't find anything here with which to take issue. :)

For everyone who's doing it for the patients: Keep trying and keep learning!
 
"Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens"

Is it just so wrong to hang my head out the window and go "woo woo woo!" ;)
 
phunguy said:
"Way too many are just here to play with the lights and sirens"

Is it just so wrong to hang my head out the window and go "woo woo woo!" ;)
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Of course it isn't! Especially when the damn siren is broken again!
 
Being new to EMS, I really have not had the time (or maybe to the rest of you feel I havent "earned the right to") form a big opinion on this matter. I was in a B class with 27 other students, majority were college kids (I am 41) wanting resume fodder for PA school. Out of that group, 20 finished the class, and I believe 18 passed the state certification. Out of those 18 I am the only one " seriously working" (though be it as a volunteer right now) in the field, with the aspiration of being full time some day. I can and do make a lot more money at my regular chosen profession then highest grade medic in the state. But I am at the age that "how much money I have or how many toys I own" doesnt mean crap. I want to know I contribute to my community and give something back, do something worthwhile for my fellow man, my neighbors, my friends. I want to feel like I am helping people, even if it is just for right now BLS. That is most important to me. Yeah, drivingemergency traffic, crawling in a wreck and comforting a crash victim, or bouncing up and down on someone's chest is all exciting, but that is only a very small part of the job.
Am i better adjusted because I am older and have a little more life experience? Or am I less effective because I had been out of school for 20 yrs before I went back to B school. I worked yesterday with an intermediate who is one test away from being full Paramedic, and she is twenty...2 yrs younger then my son who probably couldnt put a bandaid on himself. But talking to her you can tell she loves the field, and does it for the right reasons. I am sure she has bills to pay, but when you listen to the rough experiences she has had, and how hard she worked in school, I cant imagine she does it just for money or thrills alone.
I guess this field will a lot like law enforcement... there are cops who really want to right the wrongs and protect people, and others who are on a power trip, want to carry a gun, and enforce their rule over others. As long as you took your education seriously, take advantage of your educational opportunities, and really care about doing some good, it really doesnt matter to me if you got in EMS for andrenalin rush, to drive fast, to keep your FF job, to play with the lights and sirens, or you are another Mother Theresa or Johnny Gage. Put the Patient first. Then enjoy the rest. And if you did do it for all the wrong reasons, your coworkers and employers are gonna see it (if they care) and eventually the 'weeds' will egt pulled.
 
I would have to agree with Rid, Alot of people are getting involved into EMS for the wrong reasons. I agree that something needs to be done to help screen and stop producing cook book providers reguardless of there level.

I also feel that If we were able to form an actuall proffession with increased pay we must earn it. How do we earn it? By being the best.

I think that alot of our problems can be solved with-in the services, If the individual services institute a higher standard then the bare basics or minimums this would "weed out" the bad seeds so to speak. Yes there may be a large supply of unemployeed providers, But if each and every service set a high standard of care only the best of the best would be able to comply, yes?

As far as the FF vrs EMT....... I personally feel that many FF's use EMS to climb the career ladder instead of actual patient care. I do feel that there needs to be medical personel on the FF departments. Just not every one being a medic or EMT. I think one of each per truck is sufficent. or combo of either, EMT/EMT, P/P. or EMT/P.

We as a community (EMS), are responsible for what our proffession has become. We are also responsible for what it can be. We are the ones that teach, train, instruct, recruit our new members. If we dont hold ourselves responsible then how can we call ourselves proffesionals?
 
Interesting thread, and a timely one for me. I know I've been asking myself why exactly I'm drawn to this line of work. In my home, I strive for peace. Not chaos (although Lord knows chaos often rules the day!). Why exactly do I want to put myself out there, dealing with being thrown up on, mopping up who knows what out of the back of the bus, dealing with frequent fliers, people who put themselves in dangerous situations, and on and on. Ah, one of the great mysteries of life, eh?

Tamri
CPST
 
I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically: "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"

So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
You want to save lives? Public sanitation (sewer, garbage disposal) has saved more lives than medicine (by preventing epidemics).
You are interested in medicine? Geez, it sounds kinda selfish, to go into field because you are interested in it. But let's say it's OK to want to work or volunteer somewhere because it's interesting. Why EMS? Why not just work or volunteer at a hospital?
WHAT? You like working specifically in emergency setting? Like helping people with life-threatening conditions? You like challenging situations and dangerous environments? OMG, you must be a bad, selfish, whackerish person, get out of EMS.

This is, obviously, a dramatization, but you get my point. It's not only about helping people. There is also some "selfish" motivation, so to say. The desire to help people still should be there, but I think this desire alone is not enough.
 
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Foxbat said:
I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically: "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"

So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
You want to save lives? Public sanitation (sewer, garbage disposal) has saved more lives than medicine (by preventing epidemics).
You are interested in medicine? Geez, it sounds kinda selfish, to go into field because you are interested in it. But let's say it's OK to want to work or volunteer somewhere because it's interesting. Why EMS? Why not just work or volunteer at a hospital?
WHAT? You like working specifically in emergency setting? Like helping people with life-threatening conditions? You like challenging situations and dangerous environments? OMG, you must be a bad, selfish, whackerish person, get out of EMS.

This is, obviously, a dramatization, but you get my point. It's not only about helping people. There is also some "selfish" motivation, so to say. The desire to help people still should be there, but I think this desire alone is not enough.
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I'm asked that question a lot. Why I chose EMS. I've never known how to answer it. I don't think I know why I chose EMS. All I ever manage to come up with are some highlights:

1. I've never wanted a desk job. I don't want to do the same thing every day. I want to do something different every day.

2. I want to be challenged. I want to be in a high-stress situation.

3. (And this one I struggle to word appropriately) I enjoy working with society's neglected, the struggling lower classes, alcoholics, drug abusers, and those with mental disorders.

4. I have an unexplainable interest in disease, the human body, drugs, and psychology.

5. I want a hands-on job.

6. I want to work in a small team.

7. And lastly, of course, I want to feel like I'm making some sort of difference for at least someone.

And even then, I don't know why I'm really doing this. I admit that I got in this for selfish reasons. It doesn't mean I don't care about the patients. There are other jobs that fit that description, I'm sure. But I stumbled upon this one. I enjoy it, I'm good at it, and I'm going to continue doing it for at least awhile before moving up the ladder.
 
Foxbat said:
I heard a story about a young and enthusiastic med student who did her first clinical in some hospital in the UK. When she was asked by a doctor what made her choose her career she answered she wanted to help people. Doctor replied, rather sarcastically: "Well, why don't you go and work for social services?"

So, why choose EMS? You want to help people? You know, every job helps somebody.
You want to work with people, be humane, compassionate, empathic? There are social services, special education, etc.
You want to save lives? Public sanitation (sewer, garbage disposal) has saved more lives than medicine (by preventing epidemics).
You are interested in medicine? Geez, it sounds kinda selfish, to go into field because you are interested in it. But let's say it's OK to want to work or volunteer somewhere because it's interesting. Why EMS? Why not just work or volunteer at a hospital?
WHAT? You like working specifically in emergency setting? Like helping people with life-threatening conditions? You like challenging situations and dangerous environments? OMG, you must be a bad, selfish, whackerish person, get out of EMS.

This is, obviously, a dramatization, but you get my point. It's not only about helping people. There is also some "selfish" motivation, so to say. The desire to help people still should be there, but I think this desire alone is not enough.
Click to expand...

I know this is pushing the envelope a bit here, but wouldn't some schools of thought say that from a psychological standpoint the desire to help others is really an outward manifestation of an internal desire to feel justified and to have others' gratitude....essentially meaning that the desire to help others is really just a desire to feel better about yourself?

Ok, enough deep thinking for me....
 
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Okay, I just passed my NREMT. I decided that I wanted to go into EMS junior year of high school (after a summer of lifeguarding, I loved the feeling of being able to help people.) Right before my class started I was doubting whether or not I was picking the right job. I decided to stick with it. When we did our ride alongs I went to AMR (the company that is contracted with my school for 3rd rides). I was scared out of my wits. I didn't know what I'd come across. I just hoped I'd be ready for whatever came my way. The people at the front desk had me check in and I sat in the "crew room" waiting for my crew to show up. I was sitting in the chair just kind of looking over the walls with posters and fliers about employee of the quarter, being safe, traffic facts, etc. I got bored and through another set of doors was the ambulance bay. Right above that was a sign that said something very similar, but not vertabum to:

"Through these doors walk the finest EMT's and Paramedics in Colorado." I have kept in my mind ever since. I entered the EMT Basic class because that's what I "decided" to do. Reading that poster "affirmed" my "decision" and I haven't looked back since. I'm sticking with it. After my first 3rd ride, I wanted to do another (due to my crew not really teaching me very much.) So I went again. My crew was great, we talked about all sorts of things, but not very many calls to learn from. I went a third time. I had a blast with this crew. I had calls where they explained and taught me, and challenged me. I loved it. I made a schedule for 2 more 3rd rides with that crew (the max I could do was 5, and I did five.) I wasn't afraid to ask qestions. I wasn't afraid to get challenged. I talked to my patients and found a little about them. After my class I was completely fired up. I wanted more and more. I still do.

In short, I want to do this. Do I have false expectations? I think not. That 2nd time I rode we pretty much did transfers, and even BS calls that turned out to be nothing but a refusal. But that's okay. I loved my ride alongs. I loved learning. I loved seeing all sorts of people in various states of life. I am hooked.
 
I know this is pushing the envelope a bit here, but wouldn't some schools of thought say that from a psychological standpoint the desire to help others is really an outward manifestation of an internal desire to feel justified and to have others' gratitude....essentially meaning that the desire to help others is really just a desire to feel better about yourself?
Click to expand...

Interesting idea. I think in the past, I was in it for the thrill of the moment. Even though the junk calls far outweighed the good calls, it was the high of the chaos. Here, here, go here, get this, get that, move fast, make it good. Now, I suppose part of me *is looking for that thrill of the moment. The bigger picture for me now though is that I really like helping people. Even though I don't like people most of the time. lol.
 
I recommend EpiDo's reply to "Returning to EMS"

There's an example. :)
 
I can only comment on why I entered this field and what I experienced in
EMT-B training.

I was in the "private sector" supplying high tech electronic equipment to the US and to Asian countries for use in aerospace applications for many many years. I have seen so much waste and oppression thorughout the world that I decided to contribute to the humanity in some small way.

I should add that my experiences in "marginal" countries also helped in deciding to get into this field so I may return to those places when there is a need, and have a bit more training under my belt. And.....its something I've wanted to do for many many years.

I expect that I am somewhat older (58) then most on this forum. While in EMT class most were young college people. Some continuing on to medical school and some working to become PA's. There were also fire department employees getting certified. I really did not see what has been described in this thread. However, I was not looking for deficits in anyone.

I am as inexperienced with emergency care as any beginner on this forum. However, I have plans to take more advanced training as I am sure many do.

I would hope that people enter this with their eyes open. It is my feeling that learning never ends. It is a great feeling to be learning so many interesting and challenging subjects with the thought of mastering many of them in the days and months to come.

One problem I see with many "younger" folks entering this field, if I may, is simple. They just need to get some mileage under their belt. No one my friends can accelerate this.

I want to add that this forum has been of great help to me in selecting books and classes. I am taking a 12 lead class in Bend, OR in a few weeks and am looking forward to learning new skills.

Best wishes
Paul
 
lets see, I am just about finished with my emt-b class, (in jan) I am actually taking my class through R.O.P. even though I am an adult. I have learned a lot, I am carring an A which I am proud of. However out of 60 students or so only about 40 remain, out of those 40 mabey 10-12 are actually passing, and qualifiy for our ride along. which I am terrified of but extremly excited.

I have heard several of the high school students say on numerous occasions that they are strictly their for the credits, But they don't receive the credits if they fail. So what I want to know is why do they continue to waste everyones time when their are people who wanted to join the class but could not because it was filled with people just looking to get out of their regular class?

I think that is the most frustrating thing, and yeah that is kinda scary to think that if you have an emergency, one of those people who are not serous and squeaked by are gonna be out there wit hthe public doing more harm than good. So yeah I think that they should really screen people well. Remember it could be your loved one that they are on the way to rescue.
 
Though I am not an EMT (yet, hoping to become one soon), I have to agree with most of the previous posters. Why would anyone take a job just so they can get out of class, be cool, etc.? In all of my jobs, I have taken them because I had a genuine interest in the field. With EMS, I have a genuine desire to help people. I was torn between emergency medicine or law enforcement, but I am going with EMS as it has more chances to help those around me. I realize that yes, there will be plenty of times when life will be boring or the calls will be ridiculous, but there will also be times when I will be able to really help somebody out, possibly changing their life forever. I realize the job is not all glory. It can clearly be messy at times. I have researched the field, and decided that EMS is something I could do for the long run.

I just don't see how anybody could go into a job such as EMS, LE, or anything else without first studying it and seeing what it involves.

Plus, I have heard the field pays pretty well...

Eric

(Hope I haven't overstepped my bounds here. I am not an EMT or employed in the field at all, but these are just my thoughts.)
 
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..

Who said it pays well?? I wanna talk to them!
 
I had people in my emt class (we were a high school completer program) that thought it was just cool and wanted to take the "easy" way out to graduate. People dont realize you dont just sit on your *** for most of the time and then play hero the others.

For me I have always wanted to be in ems. My dad is a ff/paramedic with baltimore city I wanted to follow in his footsteps I guess you could say. I love helping people as much as some days I would like to strangle a few. I really have a passion for ems. I will admit I am straying and I want to take firefighter and rescue classes but its all things that interest me a great deal.

People who want to go in and take the class should really do some research before doing it. They need to be aware its not all hunkydory saving lives just hanging out at the station. There are somethings you will see that nothing can ever prepare you for as much as you think you will be fine if it comes up. Yes sometimes its extremely boring when nothing happens (and now that I said that when I go to the squad later today I will run my *** off) and your sitting around all day waiting for it to. Some people just want to go in for the glory of being a hero, some because they think it pays well, some because they it will be super cool. When they go to the field they will realize it isnt
 
firecoins said:
what are the right reasons?

No. People should allowed to study EMS for whatever personal reasons they want.

We don't get enough education. Education should be the "barrier". Basic EMT should be a 2 year course with paramedic a 4 year course.

I am always skeptical of people wanting to alter "expectations". More ride time in classes should be done to see if the person likes what we do.
Discussion? I will hold my comments for a while?
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[/QUOTE]

Medicine. Try that attitude with medical school admissions interview. They screen applicants, and sometimes the most qualified people get told "Buddy, stay in the office, you have no business being a doctor", and the guy with the lower GPA but the right outlook, perspective, and understanding of what medicine is gets taken in.

I firmly believe in the traditions and tenants of medicine. Patient care is a PRIVILEGE, not a right. Not everybody should be allowed to study it.
 
Personally, I feel that every EMS applicant should be psych tested prior to hire. I have no idea why this isn't the norm, at least not in my area, since it would seem to make an awful lot of sense.

Applicants to both the fire and police academies in my city are subjected to a psych eval before being considered for entrance. They certainly aren't foolproof (Antoinette Franks or Len Davis, anyone?) but they do keep some unfit folks out.

If we evaluate the psychological health of our firefighters and police officers - both positions of great responsibility - why too aren't we evaluating the first responders who are so often placed in the most morally and ethically delicate positions of all?
 
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