the company i work for recently started requiring that while one emt drives the other does the trip sheet on a "xoom" without a keyboard, the size of a kindle so that it is done in real time. this seems to contradict the notion of a crew functioning as a unit - like watching for possible obstacles while your partner is driving - like other cars, animals in the road, etc. this same company requires both crew members be drug tested for any vehicle infraction (even curb bumping). seems like it isn't safe for one to be charting while the other is driving -- not to mention getting car sick. is this legal?? it sure seems irresponsible.
use of hand held devices
- Thread starter wbrabbit
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Moved to appropriate forum.
When you get a call, doesn't the passenger always start the run sheet? You have to record dispatch time, destination, and mileage, at least. It's really no different, except you're doing it electronically instead of with paper and pen. It doesn't strike me as in any way outlandish.
I doubt it's a motor vehicle infraction for the passenger to be distracted. Ultimately, safe operation is the driver's responsibility. Though who knows what arcana is buried in the motor vehicle codes of the several states.
Shishkabob
Forum Chief
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How would it be illegal? Is it illegal for your passengers in your personal car to look at their cells? Is it illegal for someone to drive an ambulance while someone is in the back of the truck with the patient?
JPINFV
Gadfly
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Heck, my goal was to have dispatch and response time, pickup location, destination (for IFTs), unit number, dispatch code, date, day, and crew names all in by time we got to the patient. When I was driving I didn't care if my partner was watching the road or not. The only time the right side is clear is either after I looked or specifically asked my partner to look. If I can see right, I did not care if my partner said it was clear or not, I'm looking anyways.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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Per rules legal advice will not be given.
Much of that is set by default on EMSCharts mobile, based on the unit and crew I select before I even start reports. And the good thing about electronics is that most of the times just involve tapping something so that the dispatch, etc. times are entered as 'now'.
We have paper runsheets still. If you write your report that way, it has to then be entered into EMSCharts when you get back to the station. If you use the mobile, you're done and just have to electronically sign the chart later. I am inherently lazy, and prefer not having to write a chart twice.
Getting back to the earlier point, though... I agree. The driver drives, and the passenger does... whatever. If I have to flip through the map book or get directions, that's one thing, but otherwise, I get my chart started.
EMS is all about multitasking.
they want the entire chart complete. our average transport time is less than 10 min. the way ems charts is set on the xoom is not user friendly for times. the xoom also is not mounted and rewuires looking down. a few employees are requiring serious motion sickness - and the older employees are having difficulty with half screen being a touch keyboard. if the charts are done in 24h i dont see the big deal. our company is not known for the safest drivers, unfortunately - infact, the insurance carrier dropped us for recent accidents (not by me - lol)
How can you write the entire chart before you've ever seen the patient? That's just impossible.
If you mean they want the entire chart written on the tablet... It's probably something that people will get used to in time.
they want the passenger to complete the chart for the patient they just transported before the next one is picked up while the other is driving. the average time between transports is less than 10 min. it is a rural area where we are in and out of internet sevice and very windy back roads. many are getting ill. we are not given times - we record our own info. these were originally purchased for extended transports. also if the connection is idle for 3 min it locks out and you have to sign into the xoom and ems charts again. everything has to be complete before next transport. emergencies are also run in between. we average 13-14 calls without a break in 12 hr shifts.
JPINFV
Gadfly
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My personal policy has always been I don't clear until I get done charting. However, and especially for non-emergent transports, the vast majority of time my charts were almost complete by the time we got done transporting. A lot can be done in a 10-15 minute transport, including two sets of V/S.
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omg of we told our dispatcher we werent clearing until chart was done - we would be fired. it is always "quick turnaround" and never ever done on time -- like if you are done at 3 -- usually you arent done until 6pm. if you refuse any transport you get fired. if you want to grab a bag of chips, forget it. if you are on a transport transferring care more than 5m you are getting clicked on the nextel
JPINFV
Gadfly
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"There's no beds/chairs ready"
or
Complete the chart while the driver is resetting the ambulance.
...and if a company didn't give me a reasonable enough time to complete what needed to be done (transfer of care, including turning in a carbon copy of my run sheet, wiping down the ambulance, and changing the sheets), then I'd be taking the next available job.
or
Complete the chart while the driver is resetting the ambulance.
...and if a company didn't give me a reasonable enough time to complete what needed to be done (transfer of care, including turning in a carbon copy of my run sheet, wiping down the ambulance, and changing the sheets), then I'd be taking the next available job.
I guess I dont see the problem with this either. When we go on a run, the passenger pulls out the laptop and pulls the run up and starts to fill in some of the information.
Then while we are transporting, whoever has patient care, which is usually the passenger, takes the laptop and continues with the report. When we clear the hospital, if the report is not completed by then, they sit in the passenger side and finish the report and send it to the server. Then we switch roles and the initial driver gets in the passenger side and will be next up for patient care.
Then while we are transporting, whoever has patient care, which is usually the passenger, takes the laptop and continues with the report. When we clear the hospital, if the report is not completed by then, they sit in the passenger side and finish the report and send it to the server. Then we switch roles and the initial driver gets in the passenger side and will be next up for patient care.
18G
Paramedic
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I find it near impossible to have any quality documentation completed within 15mins on a tablet in a moving vehicle. It's just not possible to organize your thoughts and proof read a report when your rushed in that short period of time. Yes, definitely start the call but when it comes to typing the narrative a provider needs adequate time.
As long as the report's are completed before end of shift what does it really matter? Quality over quantity.
As long as the report's are completed before end of shift what does it really matter? Quality over quantity.
Martyn
Forum Asst. Chief
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EMS dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century :rofl:
JPINFV
Gadfly
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So, if a SNF nurse told you that you didn't need the packet to take a patient to the ED and that they'd fax the patient's packet to the ED by the end of the day, that would be fine?
Same for your discharge?
Same for a CCT?
Oh, wait. Not getting a paper report is only OK if it's EMS not providing the paper report.
I've charted in motion for about 8 years now, both paper and electronic and it's never been an issue. Seems more like an issue of "why do we have to change", my guess being OT cost of having crewmembers sit and chart post-EOS. Usually when the "isn't this illegal" argument gets pulled out it's a sign logical reasons against said policy have failed.
JP, I kinda like how my company does it now, paper quick sheet dropped with the facility and a complete ePCR faxed within 24 hours.
JP, I kinda like how my company does it now, paper quick sheet dropped with the facility and a complete ePCR faxed within 24 hours.