Unions????

[akflightmedic]

In California i can fire you because I didn't like the color of the shoes that you had that day. California is at will, so it means I can fire you if i want to and there is basically nothing you can do about it.

Yes, you said that once already. While it is an "At Will" state, most employers will not fire without just cause as they open themselves to a lot of potential for lawsuits.

Not to mention, with all the unemployment claims which the employer will be required to pay/contribute to when randomly firing employees without justifiable cause, you will not be in business very long.

 

[rescue99]

With my observation of the EMS workforce, finding cause for termination isn't necessarily a difficult thing to do. "Your honor, I did not fire Mr. Smith for wanting to join the union. I fired him for regularly failing to complete truck checkout sheets, having an unprofessional attitude, and regularly not providing care directly from the cookbook. Here's his disciplinary record. The defense rests."

Not as easy as ya think. Spent many a hour sitting in the courtroom listening to bosses attempt that and it still boils down to ...was the employee engaging in protected activity at the time of, or in the near time of all the infractions?

 

[rescue99]

In California i can fire you because I didn't like the color of the shoes that you had that day. California is at will, so it means I can fire you if i want to and there is basically nothing you can do about it.

Check your laws...right to work gives no such rights to any employer. Not to say workers are anymore familiar thus employers do get away with breaking those laws.

 

[JPINFV]

Not as easy as ya think. Spent many a hour sitting in the courtroom listening to bosses attempt that and it still boils down to ...was the employee engaging in protected activity at the time of, or in the near time of all the infractions?

So essentially engaging in protected activities gives an employee free reign to do as they please because they can just claim that everything in retaliation?

 

[Veneficus]

In California i can fire you because I didn't like the color of the shoes that you had that day. California is at will, so it means I can fire you if i want to and there is basically nothing you can do about it.

Nobody would ever accuse me of being pro union, but I just have to ask,

Why would anyone want to do that?

Most employers spend a fair bit of money on new employees; interviewing, orientation, training, con ed, and the other myriad of things I can think of that amounts to time and money.

Even in a very bad economy, there is an ambulance company here treating its employees so poorly, they can't get help. No help = lost contracts = no revenue = out of business.

unhappy/stressed employees are not really productive or particularly motivated to take care of things or be nice to customers.

Then to get people to start coming back you have to spend even more money.

I live in a state where I had to pay "fair share fees" if I didn't want to be in the union. I think it is extortion, and it put me squarely in the anti union column. But it doesn't mean if I owned a business I wouldn't try to be the employer everyone wants to work for. It attracts better employees, and the employee pride translates into good performance and good word of mouth advertizing.

Maybe i am a bit romantic, but i firmly believe if you take care of your people, they will take care of you.

 

[adamjh3]

Maybe i am a bit romantic, but i firmly believe if you take care of your people, they will take care of you.

And this attitude is so hard to find these days.

 

[emt seeking first job]

It says those are only doctors at teaching hospital, being represented as teachers, not as practicing physicians.

It also doesn't say anything about covering physicians in non teaching capacities or private hospitals.

I dont know the details.

The union NYC HHC and SUNY only have members in those systems.

NYC HHC is not a treaching hospital as is SUNY. Unless you count residents etc. There is no NYC Medical School.

 

[JPINFV]

NYC HHC is not a treaching hospital as is SUNY. Unless you count residents etc. There is no NYC Medical School.

Yes, residents count. In addition, medical students go to more than just the university's hospital for their rotations.

 

[looker]

Check your laws...right to work gives no such rights to any employer. Not to say workers are anymore familiar thus employers do get away with breaking those laws.

That is the difference between state that is right to work and the state that is at will employment.

 

[looker]

Nobody would ever accuse me of being pro union, but I just have to ask,

Why would anyone want to do that?

Most employers spend a fair bit of money on new employees; interviewing, orientation, training, con ed, and the other myriad of things I can think of that amounts to time and money.

Even in a very bad economy, there is an ambulance company here treating its employees so poorly, they can't get help. No help = lost contracts = no revenue = out of business.

unhappy/stressed employees are not really productive or particularly motivated to take care of things or be nice to customers.

Then to get people to start coming back you have to spend even more money.

I live in a state where I had to pay "fair share fees" if I didn't want to be in the union. I think it is extortion, and it put me squarely in the anti union column. But it doesn't mean if I owned a business I wouldn't try to be the employer everyone wants to work for. It attracts better employees, and the employee pride translates into good performance and good word of mouth advertizing.

Maybe i am a bit romantic, but i firmly believe if you take care of your people, they will take care of you.

Once you start dealing with union your cost for employees, health insurances etc starts going up. Thx but no thx.

 

[rescue99]

So essentially engaging in protected activities gives an employee free reign to do as they please because they can just claim that everything in retaliation?

Now where did you read that? I said no such thing. Employers do not have the right to fire, suspend or punish a person for engaging in protected activity. Protected, not stupid. That sword swings both ways. Employers get nasty then workers yelp back instead of heading straight to the NLRB to file unfair labor practice charges. I have absolutely no problems with legitimate charges or legitimate terminations. I have serious problems with employers pounding on employees though. Protected is protected.

 

[rescue99]

That is the difference between state that is right to work and the state that is at will employment.

Again, really read the laws.....

 

[JPINFV]

Now where did you read that? I said no such thing. Employers do not have the right to fire, suspend or punish a person for engaging in protected activity. Protected, not stupid. That sword swings both ways. Employers get nasty then workers yelp back instead of heading straight to the NLRB to file unfair labor practice charges. I have absolutely no problems with legitimate charges or legitimate terminations. I have serious problems with employers pounding on employees though. Protected is protected.

Reading between the lines. It's goes along with the saying that 'something is only illegal if you get caught.'

 

[looker]

Again, really read the laws.....

I talked to my lawyer. He confirmed to me that I can fire an employee in the state of California for any reason with an exception of the protective status such as sex, age etc.

 

[Lone Star]

In California i can fire you because I didn't like the color of the shoes that you had that day. California is at will, so it means I can fire you if i want to and there is basically nothing you can do about it.

It is that mentality right there why unions are necessary!

The employee might be the best employee that you have, but being able to fire them at your whim is just plain WRONG!

Union dues are usually 2 hours of pay per month, and with the mentality of looker, it's a small price to pay to be able to protect my job.

It's been a trend that in 'hard times' for the worker, the employers can usually get away with anything they want, simply because there are so many others just waiting for your job. Protection of the worker's rights is essential and the primary job of the union.

The key to a strong local of any union is their bargaining committee. These are generally elected from the local membership, so they know the 'problems' that are facing the local membership.

Strikes have to be approved at the national and international (if applicable) levels. Anything else is considered a 'wildcat strike' and is not sanctioned.

As far as letting 'temps' cross the picket line weakens your position while on strike, as the employer suffers NOTHING. People who cross a union picket line are called 'scabs' for a reason.

Unions have historically been very effective in negotiating fair wages, benefits and working conditions.

The right to organize is protected by federal law, and until the union is 'voted in', the employer still has the right to fire you for any reason they wish, as long as it doesn't violate the right to organize. Unfortunately, they can make up a reason to protect themselves from this very charge. This is why organizing is usually kept 'hush hush' until such time that the union can be voted in. Employers don't want you to organize because they can no longer rule by fear!

Having a union in place doesn't give the union member cart blanche to do what they want, but it DOES protect the member from tyrannical bosses and supervisors.

One of the initial actions of the union is to clearly delineate job descriptions. In this case, this means that an EMT cannot be pulled off their job to run NEV, wash trucks or work in supply.

Shutting down a business in order to 'break the union' is also illegal.

 

[JPINFV]

Shutting down a business in order to 'break the union' is also illegal.

Let the union run the business then...

 

[looker]

It is that mentality right there why unions are necessary!

The employee might be the best employee that you have, but being able to fire them at your whim is just plain WRONG!

Union dues are usually 2 hours of pay per month, and with the mentality of looker, it's a small price to pay to be able to protect my job.

It's been a trend that in 'hard times' for the worker, the employers can usually get away with anything they want, simply because there are so many others just waiting for your job. Protection of the worker's rights is essential and the primary job of the union.

The key to a strong local of any union is their bargaining committee. These are generally elected from the local membership, so they know the 'problems' that are facing the local membership.

Strikes have to be approved at the national and international (if applicable) levels. Anything else is considered a 'wildcat strike' and is not sanctioned.

As far as letting 'temps' cross the picket line weakens your position while on strike, as the employer suffers NOTHING. People who cross a union picket line are called 'scabs' for a reason.

Unions have historically been very effective in negotiating fair wages, benefits and working conditions.

The right to organize is protected by federal law, and until the union is 'voted in', the employer still has the right to fire you for any reason they wish, as long as it doesn't violate the right to organize. Unfortunately, they can make up a reason to protect themselves from this very charge. This is why organizing is usually kept 'hush hush' until such time that the union can be voted in. Employers don't want you to organize because they can no longer rule by fear!

Having a union in place doesn't give the union member cart blanche to do what they want, but it DOES protect the member from tyrannical bosses and supervisors.

One of the initial actions of the union is to clearly delineate job descriptions. In this case, this means that an EMT cannot be pulled off their job to run NEV, wash trucks or work in supply.

Shutting down a business in order to 'break the union' is also illegal.

You seem not get it, business is not required to do business with a union. You're welcome to be union, unless employer signs agreement with union it means nothing. There are so many EMT's right now out of work that there are many of them will be willing to be "scrabs". I will pay them double what the new union employees were making. If employer do not want a union and they are willing to hire everyone new, there is nothing union can do about it. That is the best thing about being in at will state.

 

[CAOX3]

I talked to my lawyer. He confirmed to me that I can fire an employee in the state of California for any reason with an exception of the protective status such as sex, age etc.

You need to do some research man or get a new lawyer, ever hear of the Model employment termination act, you may want to go look that up.

"At will" states are a farce, many laws have been passed to protect the employee from such employers as yourself, you only advantage is their ignorance.

And the courts rule with a heavy hand when its proven termination was in direct retaliation against attempted organisation, so you may also want to keep your checkbook handy.

Simple solution, treat your employees well and if you hear rumblings of organisation I would suggest you confront it head on. Happy employees usually don't organise unless the suits are sticking it to them.

 

[looker]

You need to do some research man or get a new lawyer, ever hear of the Model employment termination act, you may want to go look that up.

"At will" states are a farce, many laws have been passed to protect the employee from such employers as yourself, you only advantage is their ignorance.

And the courts rule with a heavy hand when its proven termination was in direct retaliation against attempted organisation, so you may also want to keep your checkbook handy.

Simple solution, treat your employees well and if you hear rumblings of organisation I would suggest you confront it head on. Happy employees usually don't organise unless the suits are sticking it to them.

My lawyer is expensive and experienced. I been in transportation business for over 10 years so have pretty good knowledge on how firing works. As i said before, if they unionized they are walking. They are welcome to sue me, that is what an insurance company is for.

 

[CAOX3]

My lawyer is expensive and experienced. I been in transportation business for over 10 years so have pretty good knowledge on how firing works. As i said before, if they unionized they are walking. They are welcome to sue me, that is what an insurance company is for.

Anyways thanks for proving in a few posts why representation is still needed in this country. Your simple replies about doubling the pay of replacements and firing your whole workforce when their threatening organization rather then addressing the underlying problem just proves the need for representation still exists.