Unions????

irish_handgrenade

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OK I realize this might... Ok, probably been beaten to death:deadhorse: but I was talking with some old dino medics recently and we were talking about nurses, and how they and their pay checks differ from us and ours. The thing that seemed to come up and not make much sense to me is the good that that the nurses unions have done for them, and how we do not have a union to support us and fight for more appropriate wages. I admit I am absolutely not educated in this area and I am probably speaking out of my ***. So could those of you who understand this or have an educated opinion speak up. I would honestly like to know your thoughts... unless you are going to bash me for my deficiency in this area then keep your thoughts to yourself.

-Jake.
 
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JPINFV

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When can I join a physician union?
 

Veneficus

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JPINFV

Gadfly
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^
What's the difference between a group of professionals and a group of laborers who engage in price fixing?

Professionals are an illegal monopoly while laborers call it a union.

Example:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/05/nmo.shtm
 

usalsfyre

You have my stapler
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Texas being a right to work state, it is highly unlikely there is a nurses union that has that kind of stroke at any facility (with the possible exception of federal facilities).

What nurses do have, is a strong regulatory body (Texas BON) whom with legaslative approval have set minimum standards about who can perform certain nursing care in the acute and long-term care settings, increasing demand and thereby negotiating power of the profession as a whole. In addition minimum standards are set about who they will license to perform that care. Take note that the Board of Nursing is made up of registered nurses interested in the growth of the nursing profession.

Paramedics? We can't even agree that all patients deserve a Paramedic level assesment, or the level of education needed to become a Paramedic. So instead, we get a government beauracracy that has no interest in our growth as a profession, only protecting the communinty from the hodgepodge of providers that are on the street.
 

fortsmithman

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Unions may be one of the reason why EMS here in Canada is paid a heck of a lot better than in the USA.
 

atropine

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unions are like blow jobs some are better than others, if you can make a great living without one hey more power to you if not well then do what works best for you.:rolleyes:
 

rescue99

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Unions may be one of the reason why EMS here in Canada is paid a heck of a lot better than in the USA.[/QUOTE

I tend to agree a strong membership that does not sit on its hiney waiting for hands outs and pats on the back tends to eat a little better than those which hide in corners whining.

I look at my IAFF card toting hubby's salary package and the paychecks of Medics who work twice as hard and the answer is as clear as day....find a strong union with a memberhsip that sticks together or forget it. Being a former union organizer I am 100% sure its the workers own fault. EMS workers aren't ready to play in the big-boy sandbox.
 

Veneficus

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What's the difference between a group of professionals and a group of laborers who engage in price fixing?

Professionals are an illegal monopoly while laborers call it a union.

Example:
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2005/05/nmo.shtm

I think the issue here is that it falls under collusion as they were supposedly seperate bodies.

there is a difference between collective bargaining within an agency, as in all members negotiating common wages and multiple organizations conspiring to fix prices.
 

JPINFV

Gadfly
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I think the issue here is that it falls under collusion as they were supposedly seperate bodies.

there is a difference between collective bargaining within an agency, as in all members negotiating common wages and multiple organizations conspiring to fix prices.

What would consider requiring the prevailing wage for government contracts then?

How is "Give us this wage or we'll strike" not collusion and extortion?
 

Veneficus

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What would consider requiring the prevailing wage for government contracts then?

How is "Give us this wage or we'll strike" not collusion and extortion?

I don't understand the first question, could you please explain what you mean.

"give us a wage or we'll strike, while certainly extortion is not collusion. As I understand collusion requires a seperation of parties in which there is an overt or covert attempt to fix a price.

As well some collective bargaining units to not have the ability to strike.

A collective bargaining unit is also not a monoploy. You can hire new people if they go on strike under the terms you wish to maintain operations.

If all of the people or corperations that supply a specific good or service in the area collectively decide to fix prices, similar to historical railroads, it can put a stranglehold on that good or service which will affect normal commerce.

As another historical example, back in the Regan era the Air traffic controllers union attempted such and it was quickly put down. The same could be done with any labor union. You could not do the same if airports colluded to fix prices.
 

WVEmt

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well heres my question for everyone. would you actually stop doing your job during a strike? is that fair to the patients? the ones who really need us anyway.... i think thats why the higher up have us by the balls. but thats just my humble opinion:rolleyes:
 

Veneficus

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well heres my question for everyone. would you actually stop doing your job during a strike? is that fair to the patients? the ones who really need us anyway.... i think thats why the higher up have us by the balls. but thats just my humble opinion:rolleyes:

There are some that are not in EMS for the benefit of the patient
 

WVEmt

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There are some that are not in EMS for the benefit of the patient

so does that make me wrong? ive dealt with plenty of pita pts but when that 1 pt comes along that truly needs our help, thats what matters to me. once again my humble opinion:unsure:
 

Veneficus

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I was trying to point out that there are some who would put their own interests above that of the patients.

I am not offering an opinion on whether it is right or wrong, it is a question of indivdual value without a correct answer.
 

fortsmithman

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well heres my question for everyone. would you actually stop doing your job during a strike? is that fair to the patients? the ones who really need us anyway.... i think thats why the higher up have us by the balls. but thats just my humble opinion:rolleyes:

Not going on strike and doing something known as work to rule.
Work To Rule means:
Taking all of your scheduled coffee breaks and lunch breaks.
Not working any overtime of any kind for any reason.
Not doing the work of a co-worker when they are absent from the office.
Not performing any duties that aren’t in your job description (we no longer have “other related duties” included in the job descriptions)
Starting work at your scheduled time and not before; and stopping work at your scheduled time and not a minute later (that’s considered free overtime for the employer).

Because here in Canada EMS is an essential service and in cases prohibited by statute from striking.
 

rescue99

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Not going on strike and doing something known as work to rule.
Work To Rule means:
Taking all of your scheduled coffee breaks and lunch breaks.
Not working any overtime of any kind for any reason.
Not doing the work of a co-worker when they are absent from the office.
Not performing any duties that aren’t in your job description (we no longer have “other related duties” included in the job descriptions)
Starting work at your scheduled time and not before; and stopping work at your scheduled time and not a minute later (that’s considered free overtime for the employer).

Because here in Canada EMS is an essential service and in cases prohibited by statute from striking.

Health services such as EMS cannot participate in a work stoppage anywhere as far as I know.
 

looker

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It's my personal policy not to hire anyone that is part of a union. Being how many EMT's are graduating every month, that is not a problem. So basically it's unlikely that union will make a difference for you.
 

DrParasite

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Unions are only as strong as the collective bargaining agreements that they have with management. You can form a union if you want, but there not is guarantee that management needs to have a contract with you. Just ask MONOC & the Professional Emergency Medical Services Association of New Jersey, Local 4610, who fought to have a union 2 years ago, and are still without a contract. And things still haven't improved.

Do I like unions? absolutely. I think it's awesome to have someone who is willing to fight for you when you are mistreated by management. Or when you are disciplined without cause, or unfairly. Even having someone (or a lot of someones) who is willing to shout at management when they are doing something that is unsafe.

That all being said, my agency (which will not be named) is a union shop. our contract has expired two years ago, we haven't gotten a raise since, we are short staffed, and having issue. Does our union help us get more money? maybe, but if there isn't any more money to go around, so we have two options: fight for more money and risk layoffs (since there is only so much money to go around), or well, accept the status quo.

Do I still support unions? well, yeah, I like it that management can't mess with you at their whim. Not that you can't be fire, nor are you invulnerable, but they have to follow the rules, and if they don't, the union will fight for you; but you can be punished for breaking the rules.

just a thought
 

fortsmithman

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It's my personal policy not to hire anyone that is part of a union. Being how many EMT's are graduating every month, that is not a problem. So basically it's unlikely that union will make a difference for you.

Here in Canada private EMS companies providing 911 service are a minority most I believe are run by municipalities and health boards with a 2 or 3 provinces running EMS in their province. As such they are represented by various unions which may for the most parts be components of the Public Service Alliance of Canada (PSAC).
 
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