There was a tail chewing

Household6

Household6

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last night during class.. Privately..

We have a class of 22, fairly important written test on airways last night. After the exam, we were told to go into another room, practice KED-ing, practice Kings and Combis while the tests were graded.

About six of my classmates were pulled one at a time into the other classroom privately with the two instructors. It was the six who are bombing the course. It kind of seems to me that we have a handful of students who are assuming this 9 credit class is an easy A.. They were told last night that they won't be able to test out with the NREMT in December. I think this kind of apathy is frustrating to the instructors. Is this something that happens a lot?

I mean, I don't mean to give the impression that I'm all Hooah-hooah and a star pupil, but I paid almost 2 grand for this course, I'm gonna friggin learn as much as I can.

Why don't people care? Why don't they take notes? Why don't they study? I really can't wrap my head around this, $1400 for tuition, plus $135 for books, $400 for state fees. What a waste of money.
 
Household6 said:
Why don't people care? Why don't they take notes? Why don't they study? I really can't wrap my head around this, $1400 for tuition, plus $135 for books, $400 for state fees. What a waste of money.
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This sounds somewhat condescending. How do you know they don't care or don't study? And regardless, how does that effect you? People fail for different reasons. You do not know your classmates' situations, motivations, or past.


On a side note: If you sat next to me in school you would think that I did not care. I never took notes, rarely paid attention in class, and didn't really study either. If you never knew me personally you would assume I was wasting my time money.
 
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Chase said:
This sounds somewhat condescending. How do you know they don't care or don't study? And regardless, how does that effect you? People fail for different reasons. You do not know your classmates situations, motivations, or past.


On a side note: If you sat next to me in school you would think that I did not care. I never took notes, rarely paid attention in class, and didn't really study either. If you never knew me personally you would assume I was wasting my time money.
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agreed

I barely cracked my book in EMT school and never took notes. I was the top in my class. It really pissed of the people that were studying like crazy and were pulling 70s and 80s.
 
Agreed you simply don't know what their life situation is. I never brought in a book or took a single note in paramedic school as that is not my learning style. If your taking notes your not REALLY listening to the information being presented.

And seriously 2k for EMT? That's ridiculous
 
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Yes apathy annoys instructors, but it should not affect you in any measurable way. Sure it's annoying when there is a group that is woefully under prepared, but unless it directly affects your learning, there is no need to say anything. Now if they are dragging the whole class down and limiting time spent learning new material because they constantly need remediation, that's when it's time for something to be done.

But until then, who cares? If they fail and lose their money, well sucks for them.

I did take notes in class but only because it was the only way I could make myself try and pay attention. People learn differently, just because they don't do as you do doesn't mean they aren't trying as well.
 
To put it bluntly, I didn't care if a single other person in my Medic class passed as long as I did at the end. Happy if they did but I paid money, spent time studying and going to class, so I could be a medic, I wasn't there for anyone else. The less people in the class the more one on one instruction time for me to make me a better provider.

Apathy annoys instructors, but most instructors know about 2 weeks into the class who is going to get 90's and above and who is going to fail out, it's not rocket science picking out the people who are going to succeed.
 
Rialaigh said:
Apathy annoys instructors, but most instructors know about 2 weeks into the class who is going to get 90's and above and who is going to fail out, it's not rocket science picking out the people who are going to succeed.
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This

As an instructor for the last 10 years. we can pick them out fairly consistently. The ones that don't care really don't bother me. I put as much effort into those students and he or she puts into the class. Those that try are the ones that I invest my time into. I don't ignore those other students or fail to deliver on my obligations as an instructor, but I'm only willing to spend my extra energy and time with those that are trying. Notice I didn't say passing. Many try and fail, but I'm still more than happy to help and do what I can. It's all about commitment and effort in my book. Some aren't cut out for the training for one reason or another, but I certainly won't stand in their way.

I tell all my students: "I'm here to help you learn and pass; not make you fail. I'm not out to get any of you, and I take no pleasure in students failing. I'm not here to stop you from failing either. It's your time, and your money, so do what you want. Just don't cause problems for your fellow students."
 
Tigger said:
Yes apathy annoys instructors, but it should not affect you in any measurable way. Sure it's annoying when there is a group that is woefully under prepared, but unless it directly affects your learning, there is no need to say anything. Now if they are dragging the whole class down and limiting time spent learning new material because they constantly need remediation, that's when it's time for something to be done.

But until then, who cares? If they fail and lose their money, well sucks for them.

I did take notes in class but only because it was the only way I could make myself try and pay attention. People learn differently, just because they don't do as you do doesn't mean they aren't trying as well.
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It's not affecting me academically yet, we're lucky to have two instructors who can split their time.. Of course I'm not going to say anything outside of here.

It just seems to me that this is a huge attrition rate: >25%?? It's only a month into the program and they're done.
 
What do you expect from a program that has virtually no entrance requirements, no prereqs or college schooling, and the promise for "adrenaline rushes" and getting to be a hero. I'm willing to bed a lot of the students are having mommy pay for it anyway.
 
Corky said:
If your taking notes your not REALLY listening to the information being presented.
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This has always kind of been my philosophy as well.

I remember in my EMT-B class, at one point we were going over stuff and everyone was madly scribbling down notes. He put up a slide with the definition of "drown", and then made fun of everyone for writing it down :lol:

I only take minimal notes - anything that seems particularly important or that I'm likely to forget (lists of things, etc). Everybody learns differently, though.
 
STXmedic said:
What do you expect from a program that has virtually no entrance requirements, no prereqs or college schooling, and the promise for "adrenaline rushes" and getting to be a hero. I'm willing to bed a lot of the students are having mommy pay for it anyway.
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I think it's realistic to expect a minimal level of competence by a person of average intelligence.. I mean, its not rocket surgery, right? :lol:

I'm not annoyed at it, I'm more confounded and perplexed. I've never been a part of a college class where so many people were turned over so quickly-- even BCT and AIT had a higher finishing rate.
 
I took notes, I studied my *** off and passed with a 96% .
Did it annoy me others didn't? Yes. And I will explain.
I had people asking me why I cared, telling me it didn't affect me, but it did. When we broke into groups, when we had to break into stations it was me that they partnered up with. I was constantly helping the ones who didn't put the effort in.
Yes, some had life circumstances that got in the way, but so did I. I had a full time job, a chronically ill child sometimes critically ill. I had been out of school for almost 20 years, I needed to work hard .
Out of the ones who never cracked a book or appeared not to study, 1 passed the nremt, the other 5 failed.
Time in class was wasted on continuous review, helping others catch up etc. I can see the irritation one can get when others don't seem to care. Of course there are exceptions , but some just don't get a damn
 
As a Paramedic instructor we look for people's different learning styles and try to cater to them. Some are readers, some are listeners and some are doers.

If the instructors of this class were worth anything, they would have picked these out early and made the adjustments. If it was even an issue.

I'm guessing these people that were dropped from your class knew it was coming and it came as no surprise.
 
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Household6 said:
I think it's realistic to expect a minimal level of competence by a person of average intelligence.. I mean, its not rocket surgery, right? :lol:

I'm not annoyed at it, I'm more confounded and perplexed. I've never been a part of a college class where so many people were turned over so quickly-- even BCT and AIT had a higher finishing rate.
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But it's not really a college class. I took my EMT through my own undergrad institution, and while the course was physically located at the college, there is a reason it is listed as an "adjunct" in the course catalog. At the end of the day, it is designed so that someone at an eighth grade reading level who graduated high school will be able to grasp the material.

That doesn't mean that it is easy, it just means the content is designed to be accessible to a large number of people. I totally understand that learning EMT skills can be just as difficult as grasping 19th century literature. But nonetheless, an EMT class simply does not compare to the breadth and depth found in college classes. Take the class for what it is, excel at it, and leave the apathetic ones behind.
 
Household6 said:
It's not affecting me academically yet, we're lucky to have two instructors who can split their time.. Of course I'm not going to say anything outside of here.

It just seems to me that this is a huge attrition rate: >25%?? It's only a month into the program and they're done.
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My paramedic program was 9 months long, we started with 28 and finished 3. I appreciate and thank my instructors for failing so many people and weeding out those who really shouldn't be doing the job.
 
It depends on whos failing for what reason.

There are people that are taking the class for a "filler credit" and just hope to pass the course could give a crap about maintaining certification

there are those who are trying their best and its just not fitting their learning style.

I can't take notes. they just end up sloppy and confuse the crap out of me later.

My class isn't a spoon feed program you either get it or you don't. if you don't and your making effort to find a way to learn it your going to do alright. If your just trying to make the bare minimum standard or not even meeting the standard and not trying to put effort into getting to the level of the class. Your screwed. don't even waste your time
 
Household6 said:
It just seems to me that this is a huge attrition rate: >25%?? It's only a month into the program and they're done.
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The program I graduated from consistently has >50% attrition; and my year we even lost one after the first 50 minutes of class...he just never came back from break.

Around here I see it as a low economic barrier (sub $1k from EMT->Paramedic) to entry in an "exciting" field that is in the "healthcare" field (Big Dolla Signs) draws big crowds of people who are not prepared for a college level course. Unfortunately it isn't run as part of a degree program, so the majority of the students just don't get what is being asked of them and thus they fail out.

I don't necessarily see a problem with it.
 
Stray shots.

Maybe these people are being subsidized and maybe they don't really want to be there. Or maybe they learn through a different "channel" than the presenters are using? (Hands-on versus lecture versus reading etc).
Be that as it may, an adult will work to overcome such a "channel" issue and "get it".

I had an airman who closed his eyes and gave every impression he was asleep. Trouble was, he'd be able to recite the last five minutes' material and perform the tasks. I just moved him to the rear so as not to bother others and I spoke up, then used him as a volunteer for exhibits.

I had a class full of 21 y/o former "at risk students" (e.g., gang affiliates and slackers) who would text in class and then just stare at me if I made signs they needed to attend. Their practicums were fine, they all passed the written tests, much to my hidden chagrin and grudging respect.

Sometimes the issue is the instructors' self-image or expectation of students' attentive/attending behavior, which we get our warm fuzzies from. And it can irk the other students. Just get your certificate and press on.
 
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