the 100% directionless thread

Carlos Danger

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Curious - best first, home firearm?
AR-15 hands down. They are surprisingly easy to learn to shoot well and very versatile and very effective.

Shotguns are great, but an AR gives you much more ammo capacity and much less recoil and arguably takes less training to learn to shoot well.
Handguns clearly have their place but require more training than a rifle and can't even come close to the terminal effectiveness of a rifle.
 

Akulahawk

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I would suggest an AR-type platform or a 20g pump shotgun. Neither will beat you up if you shoot it and both are easy to learn to use. You have to aim both or they won't work well for you... any defensive shotgun load won't have enough spread, so you must aim a shotgun. I'm no beginner and I'm reasonably recoil-insensitive and my choice would still be an AR platform or a 12g pump shotgun followed by/backed up by any of my pistols.

Regardless, I would highly recommend getting formal training with whatever firearm is chosen for home defense use. Once you've gotten the training, periodic review should be done to ensure you know your chosen firearm and how to use it defensively. You don't want to have to re-invent the wheel if a problem comes knocking at (or through) your door...
 

RocketMedic

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Curious - best first, home firearm?
Entirely dependent on you, but I simp hard for the semi-automatic Ruger 10/22 in a “home utility/defense” scenario if you’re living in an urban space and can only have one for some reason. You can find them everywhere, they’re as reliable as can be, they’re quiet and the .22LR doesn’t typically overpenetrate, and mag-dumping into someone will ruin their day. Plus it’s cheap and easy to learn to shoot well.

Granted, it’s not my bedside gun. I live in an apartment and have a 9mm handgun in that role first…but the Ruger is my general-purpose gun I would take if I could only have one.
 

Old Tracker

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Whatever you get, spend the time and money to learn how to use it proficiently. For home defense, especially apartment dwellers, you need to be good at 3, 7, and maybe 10 yards. You can do the 15-25 yard business after you are more than proficient at the shorter ranges. Look into Mantis-x products. Initial cost may seem steep, but you won't be burning up scarce ammo. JMO.
 

M3dicalR3dn3ck

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I trust my Winchester 12 GA pump for home defense. Not crazy expensive, doesn't recoil too terribly, and useful for bird hunting as well as home defense. If it's your first gun, I agree with everyone saying to get training and education. The time I spent as a gun salesman made me wish firearm training and education were mandatory for high school graduation.

As for storage, it really depends on how well your kids obey your rules. Some kids, putting the fear of God in them is enough to keep them out of your closet, others you'll want a locking gun cabinet or a safe.
 

Akulahawk

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As for storage, it really depends on how well your kids obey your rules. Some kids, putting the fear of God in them is enough to keep them out of your closet, others you'll want a locking gun cabinet or a safe.
I no longer have kids in the house... but my firearms were either on my person and ready to go OR they were secured appropriately in a safe. That being said, my kid was taught both the basics of firearm safety, she has shot quite a few of my guns over the years, and I have always maintained a 100% "if you ever want to see/handle my firearms, just ask and I'll get it" policy. This way these are never an item of mystery. If I'd had a son, I'd have had the same policy for him. While my daughter is not a gun enthusiast, she's also not anti-gun. She sees them more as a tool for which appropriate training is necessary and isn't afraid of them. She's appropriately neutral. If / when my daughter has kids, I'll have the same policy for them as well. No mystery, no problem.
 

Tigger

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I trust my Winchester 12 GA pump for home defense. Not crazy expensive, doesn't recoil too terribly, and useful for bird hunting as well as home defense. If it's your first gun, I agree with everyone saying to get training and education. The time I spent as a gun salesman made me wish firearm training and education were mandatory for high school graduation.

As for storage, it really depends on how well your kids obey your rules. Some kids, putting the fear of God in them is enough to keep them out of your closet, others you'll want a locking gun cabinet or a safe.
Respectfully, if there are children in your house, lock up your firearms.
 

EpiEMS

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Great State of New York seems to suggest against the AR-15 :rolleyes:, so I think a 10/22 or 20-gauge kinda makes the most sense, coupled with cost of ammo. I definitely would need some training --will look into classes!
 

RocketMedic

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Great State of New York seems to suggest against the AR-15 :rolleyes:, so I think a 10/22 or 20-gauge kinda makes the most sense, coupled with cost of ammo. I definitely would need some training --will look into classes!
Semiautomatic 22LR is addictivr
 

Carlos Danger

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Great State of New York seems to suggest against the AR-15 :rolleyes:, so I think a 10/22 or 20-gauge kinda makes the most sense, coupled with cost of ammo. I definitely would need some training --will look into classes!
Is the Ruger Mini 14 legal in NYS? Personally, that would be my first choice for a dedicated home-defense firearm if I couldn't have an AR. Uses the same cartridge as most AR's (5.56 NATO / .223, though you can also get it in 7.62x39 or .300BLK) and even if limited to a 10-round magazine, you'll have more capacity and less recoil than a shotgun.

Edit: A pistol makes a really good home defense weapon, too. They take more training and practice than a carbine, but lots of us learn to really enjoy shooting and use it as a hobby, so keeping your skills up isn't necessarily a chore. I'd recommend a striker fired semiautomatic pistol in 9mm from a manufacturer with a long track record of reliability. A full size Glock (17, 19, 19x, 45) or Smith & Wesson M&P 2.0 are my favorites, but there are lots of good options.
 
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RocketMedic

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Rant ahead. Don’t read if you don’t want honest, unbiased opinion.

So the IDF is bombing ambulances claiming they’re “Hamas”….pretty sure the stack of dead school aged children is somehow making Israel safer. Not linking the video, look for “woke doctor” on IG if you’re ghoulish. I’ve been around enough to know that “Hamas” is basically the same as “Taliban” or “suspected VC”…a convenient tag to justify something, divorced from evidence. Lots of dead Iraqis and Afghans were “terrorists”.

Seriously, I’m over the casual bigotry we show in the West. I’m a billion percent sure some smug person is going to come along and point out the obvious that ambulances have at times in the past been used as weapons, that it’s entirely possible a terrorist was riding out, etc, and claim that Israel is in the right because “Arab bad” or Islamophobia or whatever. And I’m fully aware that terrorists are indeed bad-faith actors, doing heinous things, and that they need to be stopped.

That still doesn’t make it ok to take shots at civilians. At ambulances, and hospitals, and people running away. We did that in Vietnam, in the GWOT, and we were wrong. We lost those wars and we soiled our reputation and we gave the world a reason not to trust us that we are still dealing with decades later. And those were from brush fire wars on the other side of the world!

I fear for Israelis, I really do. Because they’re collectively setting themselves up for a war without end that will see their liberties curtailed, their nation rendered a pariah state and their culture unjustly associated with the actions of a few (incidentally this is why ethnostates are a terrible idea!)

This war won’t end when every last Hamas militant is dead. It’s only just beginning, and Israel is going to have to find an answer as to how to keep hundreds of thousands of innocent, terrorized people from becoming radicalized on their own and starting Hamas 2.0. Because if I was fishing my kid out of the dead kid pile and pulling Raytheon circuit boards and Made-in-America shrapnel out of my spouse, I’d be fairly inclined to blame the people dropping those JDAMs and their suppliers. That’s making our lives less safe because those people are going to want revenge. Wouldn’t you?

Hamas is a damned prison gang with religious leanings that is fueled by longstanding grievances and problems, that’s how they’ve avoided becoming the next ISIS. Using them for justification of every strike and blaming them for every death is pointless- they have no agency, no courage and no responsibility to their fellows. Just like AQI and IS. But when we killed everyone around them, we became the enemy of everyone and they acted like it. And the Israelis are on that same path. Unlike us, they don’t have the luxury of distance or disengagement, and they’ve decided to lose the peace in pursuit of an impossible victory. I hate that truth, but the dead kid stacks are pretty hard to overlook. And as someone who isn’t an anti-Semite, I hate that the current Israeli government and their enablers have tied support for their ambitions and actions to support for the Jewish culture and faith and people. The two are not the same. Human greed and ambition should not be construed as faith or heritage. But here we are, stuck between two evils, because the extremes on both sides are in power and neither leading group wants any sort of peace. Hamas has already won, btw. Israel’s reputation with their neighbors is smashed beyond repair and normalized relations with pretty much anyone not already on-side is going to be effectively impossible, plus the IDF is going to be tied to Gaza for years to come and radicalized locals are going to be a never-ending insurgency that Israel cannot walk away from or surrender to. So, more brutal apartheid, more civilians dead, more oppression. Winners: Iran and Russia. Hate that it’s going to be that.



Tonight, an unknown number of our Palestinian colleagues are dead, because they were doing God’s work in the most hellish situation I can imagine. We will never know their names, but they should be remembered as heroes. Rest in paradise, brothers.
 

Jim37F

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1699075711296.png
 

PotatoMedic

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Rant ahead. Don’t read if you don’t want a biased opinion.

Fixed it for ya.

I think you are more than entitled to post your feelings and opinions but be honest about them.
 

RocketMedic

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Fixed it for ya.

I think you are more than entitled to post your feelings and opinions but be honest about them.
How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency? If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
 

CCCSD

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How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency? If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
Probably because the Jews have been slaughtered for eons, yet are always treated as instigators. They are in The Right on this.
 

EpiEMS

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How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency?
I don't think anybody is going to disagree that there are legitimate policy, tactical, and strategic disagreements with Israel. That said, I'm inclined to generally believe the IDF before I believe anything the other side says, especially when it is entirely plausible based on historical practices by Hamas and their ilk...
If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
Not sure I agree with that. Nobody peace-kept in Ireland, nobody has in Myanmar, nobody did or has in Ethiopia, and the peace keeping in Lebanon in the 80s was highly ineffective.
 

PotatoMedic

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How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency? If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
Was your post fact based and objective to all the facts of the situation, or was it based on how you feel?

That's why I said it isn't unbiased.

I have more to say but this isn't the place to discuss it.
 

CCCSD

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How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency? If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
Rwanda. A UN triumph.
 

Akulahawk

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How is it biased to point out that everything Israel does ain’t necessarily appropriate, ethical or consistent with human decency? If they were targeting any other human population but Muslim Arabs, NATO would have peace-kept them 20 years ago.
NATO doesn't have a dog in this fight. Israel isn't a member nor is it taking actions against a NATO member.

In any event, upon the creation of Israel as a State by the UN, Egypt, Syria and Jordan invaded that newly created State. Israel has, historically, generally kept to itself UNLESS it was attacked. Israel's attack on Osirak (Iraq) in 1981 basically halted (for quite a while) Iraq's ability to develop nuclear weapons. That attack actually helped Iran and Syria (and themselves) as it removed the relatively immediate threat of nuclear attack on Iran and/or Israel. That attack was done at the beginning of the Iran/Iraq war.

Iran and its proxies do not want Israel to exist. Israel knows this. Israel's beef is with Iran and its proxies, not Muslim Arabs generally. If that were the case, they wouldn't have been working toward normalizing relations with Egypt and other largely Muslim Arab nations in the area. Notice that all the attacks on Israel have been coming from Hamas, Yemeni Houthi, and Hezbollah controlled areas - all Iranian proxies, not other Muslim Arab controlled areas and of those, Israel is only taking action against Hamas controlled areas.

Hamas is running this as a multi-pronged campaign... they're losing the ground campaign but they're also waging a political one.

Their behavior is exactly like a kid kicking a bigger kid, getting walloped for it, and then going off and crying to Mama because bigger kid walloped me... and they're hoping that the rest of the world ignores the fact that they actually instigated all of this in the first place.
 
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