Stopping at A Witnessed MVA

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Your commute goes from Montana to Atlanta?....and I thought I was paying a ton for gas...:rolleyes:
 
KEVD18 said:
and ya might just be sued, which has one of two outcomes. you win, but still end up spending a fortune on legal expenses. or you lose, have you wages garnished until the judgment it paid, quite possibly lose every possesion you have worth anything and still spend a fortune on legal fees.

if im not on duty and not being paid, im not an emt(exceptional circumstances excepted) and therefore im abystander. what are bystanders supposed to do? call it in and stay out of the way. i cant be anymore out of the way than 15 miles down the road, and closer to my destination to boot.
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If your first thought is if you will be sued or not then you really shouldn't stop.
 
bstone said:
It won't kill ya to get out and check to see if your help is needed. You might just save a life.
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Tell that to this guy...or his surviving family rather...along with the dozen or so other similar news stories I accessed with a simple search.

Click link for entire story. This little event killed a doctor, an EMT/FF and injured two other EMTs..all whom were stopping to assist.

http://fallenbrothers.com/community/archive/index.php?t-2275.html

A Florida firefighter was killed when he stopped to assist at an accident scene and was struck by another vehicle.

Shane Kelly, 26, an Oviedo Fire Rescue firefighter, was one of six people assisting those trapped in a Toyota when a northbound tractor-trailer, unable to stop hit the rescuers killing Kelly and Dr. Donald N. Diedel, an Orlando doctor who also stopped to render aid. Four others were taken to hospitals with injuries listed as serious to minor.

Florida Highway Patrol Lt. Andrew Morris, reading from the accident report of investigating Trooper R.L. Hadly said heavy rain was falling June 8 at the 1:18 p.m. accident of an overturned Toyota in the median strip of the Ronald Reagan Turnpike near Wildwood, Florida.

Lars D. White, Division Chief, Oviedo Fire Rescue said the truck, after striking the rescuers, traveled further and struck Kelly’s vehicle in which his wife Rachel was waiting. She was not injured. The Kellys were traveling to Tallahassee.

Among the four others injured were William Callier, 38, of Hampton, Georgia, a Cobb County firefighter, on his way home from Walt Disney World with his wife, Sharon, and their two sons, 12 and 15. His right leg was broken in four places. And Cindy Marshall, 26, of Smyrna, Georgia, an emergency medical technician, broke both ankles and an arm.
 
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Fine. No one should ever stop at the sight of an MVA, even on an almost deserted road in which cars are as frequent as a speeding turtle.

You've convinced me.

Let the patient die.
 
bstone said:
If your first thought is if you will be sued or not then you really shouldn't stop.
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Unfortunately, in today's society, this should cross you mind.

I'm just getting started in EMS, because I would like to help people. However, I have a wife, house, etc that I am not willing to put at risk in order to help. I am not happy that our society is as litigious as it is, but I am aware of it.

As far as I know, if you are off duty, and thus not operating under medical control, you have no business doing more than notifying 911. If you choose to do more, you should absolutely be aware of the possible consequences of doing so.
 
bstone said:
Fine. No one should ever stop at the sight of an MVA, even on an almost deserted road in which cars are as frequent as a speeding turtle.

You've convinced me.

Let the patient die.
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I did not say that, but this is something that needs to be considered just as much as the actual help to be rendered.

Someone else's emergency does not supersede the rights of my children to have a living father throughout the majority of their lives. Their emergency does not trump my spouse's right to a mate. Their emergency will not force a career ending or life altering injury simply because I chose to assist them. If they die, they die. It IS that simple.

I do NOT want to be a hero; all the heroes I know are dead.

Each and every incident I see, these thoughts are first and foremost. Yes, they take precedence over whoever is injured and I am ok with that.

I am not saying I don't stop, because I have; however, there have been times where I did not stop as well. I just want to stress the importance of not becoming tunnel visioned and not becoming a hero. People die every day and that is ok.
 
It won't kill ya to get out and check to see if your help is needed.
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Tell that to my Aunt Karen:
http://warchild.blog-city.com/biketoberfest_deaths_sad_tragic_random.htm

As Redrick and his wife cruised south, a black dog darted into the road. Redrick hit the animal and sideswiped Gheen. All three bikers tumbled onto the pavement.

As Jacqueline and Steve Redrick picked themselves up to help Gheen, a third motorcycle arrived. Passenger Karen Murgo, 47, rushed to help Gheen while the driver, who has not been identified, ran down the road to slow oncoming traffic.

It didn't work.

Just north of the wreck, Timothy Ochiuzzo, 25, was driving from Daytona Beach to Deltona. Following him was his girlfriend, Shana Pignato.

As he neared the motorcycles, Ochiuzzo spotted a man trying to direct traffic along the darkened two-lane stretch. Distracted or unsure what the man meant, Ochiuzzo kept going and plowed into Gheen and the group of three kneeling around him.
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Now if family finds out I stopped at an accident, they freak out.
 
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Like I said, you convinced me. Gee, they should even have ambulances respond to MVAs. Only people wearing body armor.
 
If all the heros you know are dead then I have to suggest you knew some incredibly wreckless people. Afterall, scene safety is #1. I did not become a FF as I have zero interest in running into a burning building. My own personal safety is of huge importance to me.
 
bstone said:
If all the heros you know are dead then I have to suggest you knew some incredibly wreckless people. Afterall, scene safety is #1. I did not become a FF as I have zero interest in running into a burning building. My own personal safety is of huge importance to me.
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Seeing as how the last two years of my life have been in Afghanistan and Iraq, yes I stand by the statement that all the heroes I know are indeed dead.
 
do what you will. i personally choose not to risk my life(first and foremost), my license, my hosue and all my worldy possesions to stop and get in the way at an accident scene.

i carry nothing of value for medical gear in my pov, so right there im going to be very little help. about the only thing i can do at an accident scene is stand there and say " wow, looks like a bad one". thats just adds one more person and vehicle to the scene and one more pocket for the lawyers to stick their hands into.

sorry, but there are limits to this job. if you or anyone else wants to be a 24/7 hero, then god love ya. me personally, i confine my professional activities to when im on duty, properly equipped, coverd by both a medical director and insurance and required by law to act. other than that, im off the clock and off the job.

your personal policies are your business.


btw, this is officially a fight. as ive said a thousand times, these discussion that are so deeply rooted in our personal psyches are almost guaranteed to end in a fight. if the op had just searched, they would have found just about everybody who's posted so fars' opinion has been previously documented and we wouldnt be havning the same argument AGAIN.

since its a medical matter and therefore relevant, and we're already fighting, anybody want to talk about the moral, ethical, and legal ramifications of abortion? thats a discussion that wont get ugly right?
 
akflightmedic said:
Tell that to this guy...or his surviving family rather...along with the dozen or so other similar news stories I accessed with a simple search.

Click link for entire story. This little event killed a doctor, an EMT/FF and injured two other EMTs..all whom were stopping to assist.

http://fallenbrothers.com/community/archive/index.php?t-2275.html

A Florida firefighter was killed when he stopped to assist at an accident scene and was struck by another vehicle.

Shane Kelly, 26, an Oviedo Fire Rescue firefighter, was one of six people assisting those trapped in a Toyota when a northbound tractor-trailer, unable to stop hit the rescuers killing Kelly and Dr. Donald N. Diedel, an Orlando doctor who also stopped to render aid. Four others were taken to hospitals with injuries listed as serious to minor.
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Shane Kelly's death was not to be forgotten.

BlsBoy brought it up in this thread and we were able to find the statute for workmen's comp that it benefited where off duty FFs and government EMS employees were concerned.

http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=5825&page=5&highlight=shane+kelly

Unfortunately, dead is still dead.
 
akflightmedic said:
Seeing as how the last two years of my life have been in Afghanistan and Iraq, yes I stand by the statement that all the heroes I know are indeed dead.
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Thats funny, I know plenty of heros that are alive. Saying the magic work "Iraq" to denote some sort of wisdom will not work on me.
 
daedalus said:
Thats funny, I know plenty of heros that are alive. Saying the magic work "Iraq" to denote some sort of wisdom will not work on me.
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I don't think he was trying to get any respect or anything, but the fact the one poster kind of... Made light of someone's sacrifice. Labeling people who lost their lives helping people as "wreckless". Kinda coldish. My opinion, at least.

And YOUR safety should supercede anyone else's life, because all you're gonna do if you get out and get hit is make the job harder on the responding medics who have their trucks, vests, lights, etc to say "HERE I AM, WATCH OUT FOR ME!" and protect them.

If it's dangeorus, stay in your car and call 911. Easy squeezy lemon peasy.
 
Sasha said:
I don't think he was trying to get any respect or anything, but the fact the one poster kind of... Made light of someone's sacrifice. Labeling people who lost their lives helping people as "wreckless". Kinda coldish. My opinion, at least.

And YOUR safety should supercede anyone else's life, because all you're gonna do if you get out and get hit is make the job harder on the responding medics who have their trucks, vests, lights, etc to say "HERE I AM, WATCH OUT FOR ME!" and protect them.

If it's dangeorus, stay in your car and call 911. Easy squeezy lemon peasy.
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Anybody who was hurt or killed while stopping off duty has all of my respect and honor. Your right sasha.
 
Respect, maybe depending on the circumstances.

Darwin's law applies and some people deserve no respect or honor regardless of their willingness to help. Sorry, you can not fix stupid.

I still stand by the hero term, I do believe heroes die. Yes, you may know some living ones, but I do not. I am speaking personally here as I assume you are as well.

I think the word hero is used too casually and too often in the media and day to day life, to the point where we no longer have a solid definition of what constitutes a hero.

Iraq is not a magic word and it was not used to denote wisdom; in fact I do not think I implied that at all. Location was mentioned to give a frame of reference of where I was coming from, which one needs to know in order to have some perspective of my views in order to fully appreciate the "debate".
 
daedalus said:
Anybody who was hurt or killed while stopping off duty has all of my respect and honor. Your right sasha.
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Seriously? Sorry, but that is one of the most asinine and flat out idiotic things anybody has said here. Ever.

Doing something that causes you to die does not make anyone an automatic "hero" or automatically deserving of any respect or honor. It's crap like that belief that get's more people hurt or dead each year than anything.

Use your :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing head for a change. Give honor and respect to the people who deserve it, not to some poor schmuck who get's him/herself killed doing something that they shouldn't have.
 
Let's not turn this into a flame war.

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look.....joy....over there......get it...
 
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