Self Defense for EMS

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Sorry; my fingers worked faster than my mind. I DO NOT advocate a provider carrying a Glock in the passenger compartment of an ambulance. Sorry for the confusion.
 
another few responses...

"guns don't kill people... people kill people"

"if throwing a rock could kill a person, so could a gun.... so are we gonna outlaw rocks now too?"

"if guns kill people.... then spoons make michael moore fat"


my point here... its all about WHO has the gun and ARE they using it properly?

Sure... there are tons of police out there who use theirs for the wrong reasons, but what about the majority who use it correctly? my point stands that if EMS is in a metro area, or an area with high gang violence or other issues which could do bodily harm to the members in EMS... they should have the option to be armed and wear kevlar. If i was working in some dangerous parts of LA... or worse... Oakland... I'd want a gun.... period.... esp on night shifts.
 
Michael Sykes said:
I guess I'm fortunate to live in a community where PD hasn't got much else to do than to chase the FD and EMS. They're usually there when we get there, and have evaluated the scene.
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Oh? Like small towns in Texas? Like a military base? What about some junkie deciding to kill you for the morphine you might be carrying?

I do advocate an EMT pr Paramedic carrying a Glock in the passenger compartment of an ambulance; an errant shot could ricochet all over the place, even taking the driver out. Then what happens?
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Everyone seems to think that devising some fantasy-land scenario in which something goes "bad" is the means for justifying their position, yet no one here has thought "Gosh, I bet it'd be pretty bad if some degenerate scumsucker rips my throat open while I'm trying to defend myself with my shears or a 6x6 gauze". I mean, isn't "ME DYING" a pretty bad plausible scenario when it comes to self-defense?

But we're all so innundated with nanny-statism that we cant' accept that, yes, some actions have (turn your eyes little ones) consequences and we've got to have (again, young children out of the room!) personal responsibility *GASP* for our own actions!
 
DV_EMT said:
another few responses...

"guns don't kill people... people kill people"

"if throwing a rock could kill a person, so could a gun.... so are we gonna outlaw rocks now too?"

"if guns kill people.... then spoons make michael moore fat"


my point here... its all about WHO has the gun and ARE they using it properly?

Sure... there are tons of police out there who use theirs for the wrong reasons, but what about the majority who use it correctly? my point stands that if EMS is in a metro area, or an area with high gang violence or other issues which could do bodily harm to the members in EMS... they should have the option to be armed and wear kevlar. If i was working in some dangerous parts of LA... or worse... Oakland... I'd want a gun.... period.... esp on night shifts.
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Oh, you! Oakland has the even more restrictive laws about firearms than the hoplophobes on this website want levied against EMS responders! How could that POSSIBLY be a dangerous city? I bet it's a shining beacon of glory and peace much like other unarmed cities, like New York, Camden, Washington DC, Baltimore, Los Angeles. Ya know, all those places where violent crime was "solved" by preventing law abiding citizens from carrying guns!

;-) Good post, nice to see I'm not the only one here that's more concerned with the trivialities (such as "not being dead") rather than "the community might not like it", or whatever hogwash is being uttered today ;-)
 
Michael Sykes said:
I guess I'm fortunate to live in a community where PD hasn't got much else to do than to chase the FD and EMS. They're usually there when we get there, and have evaluated the scene.
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Irregardless, make sure you re-evaluate it for yourself. They could have missed something.
 
thatJeffguy said:
Oh, you! Oakland has the even more restrictive laws about firearms than the hoplophobes on this website want levied against EMS responders! How could that POSSIBLY be a dangerous city? I bet it's a shining beacon of glory and peace much like other unarmed cities, like New York, Camden, Washington DC, Baltimore, Los Angeles. Ya know, all those places where violent crime was "solved" by preventing law abiding citizens from carrying guns!

;-) Good post, nice to see I'm not the only one here that's more concerned with the trivialities (such as "not being dead") rather than "the community might not like it", or whatever hogwash is being uttered today ;-)
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if these cities just had the Jeff guy walking around, it would be safe.
 
what is the point in arguing this point further? No one is going to change how Jeff feels, and he's entitled to feel that way. Jeff isn't going to change how anyone else feels, who are also entitled to their opinion.

If you can find a company that permits you to carry... you go ahead and do it. it seems less that you're defending your thoughts, and more pushing an agenda for EMS personnel to be issued firearms.
 
Breaking my boycott of these threads:

1. Nice to hear some reasonable voices, often seems we need self defense more on EMTLIFE than the streets.
2. I would refuse transport by a gun-toting EMT. Nothing against guns qua guns, but I would do the same if she or he showed up with a canned goods stamper from Walmart or a small bird in a cage. "WTF?" and "Nope, send the other team".;)
 
mycrofft said:
1. Nice to hear some reasonable voices, often seems we need self defense more on EMTLIFE than the streets.
2. I would refuse transport by a gun-toting EMT. Nothing against guns qua guns, but I would do the same if she or he showed up with a canned goods stamper from Walmart or a small bird in a cage. "WTF?" and "Nope, send the other team".;)
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... and i thought a highly trained attack canary was a great idea....
 
mycrofft said:

2. I would refuse transport by a gun-toting EMT. Nothing against guns qua guns, but I would do the same if she or he showed up with a canned goods stamper from Walmart or a small bird in a cage. "WTF?" and "Nope, send the other team".;)
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Would you refuse to be pulled from a burning car by a LEO?

When you deal with people every day, do you ask them for an inventory of their inanimate objects so you may see if they offend you? I've got some pretty ugly socks I wear when I run calls and such, perhaps I should update them so no one refuses my care!

If you refused because someone was carrying, and that someone was me, I'd smile, have you sign, and leave. No skin off my back if you want to lie in a ditch and die because of your irrational fear of inanimate objects. I find it funny that you'd not want to be around a gun, but you'd be loaded into the back of the most dangerous "item" in existence, a motor vehicle. Oh well, to each their own :)
 
thatJeffguy said:
Would you refuse to be pulled from a burning car by a LEO?

When you deal with people every day, do you ask them for an inventory of their inanimate objects so you may see if they offend you? I've got some pretty ugly socks I wear when I run calls and such, perhaps I should update them so no one refuses my care!

If you refused because someone was carrying, and that someone was me, I'd smile, have you sign, and leave. No skin off my back if you want to lie in a ditch and die because of your irrational fear of inanimate objects. I find it funny that you'd not want to be around a gun, but you'd be loaded into the back of the most dangerous "item" in existence, a motor vehicle. Oh well, to each their own :)
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lol.... i agree with that second paragraph A LOT.

and to resolve the idea that a gun being visible would reduce a pt wanting transport.... 3 words.... concealed weapon licence. problem solved!!!! :P
 
DV_EMT said:
and to resolve the idea that a gun being visible would reduce a pt wanting transport.... 3 words.... concealed weapon licence. problem solved!!!! :P
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Of what use is the gun if it is not readily available? By the time you are confronted and then fumble around to get it out of concealment, I doubt if you will be the winner. Didn't they teach you that in your conceal weapon class?
 
thatJeffguy said:
Would you refuse to be pulled from a burning car by a LEO?
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I see you don't know the difference between an EMT and an LEO. Is this why you confuse who should be carrying a gun and trying to play the cop role?

thatJeffguy said:
When you deal with people every day, do you ask them for an inventory of their inanimate objects so you may see if they offend you? I've got some pretty ugly socks I wear when I run calls and such, perhaps I should update them so no one refuses my care!
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We do know who is carrying a weapon at least when they enter through the hospital doors. If I have a suspicion about someone carrying at scene, that is what the LEO is for. However, I will not be so stupid as to allow an EMT(P) partner to carry a gun onto an ambulance and will be more than happy to have the LEO remove it from him and escort him off the ambulance since it is a direct violation of company policy.

thatJeffguy said:
If you refused because someone was carrying, and that someone was me, I'd smile, have you sign, and leave. No skin off my back if you want to lie in a ditch and die because of your irrational fear of inanimate objects. I find it funny that you'd not want to be around a gun, but you'd be loaded into the back of the most dangerous "item" in existence, a motor vehicle. Oh well, to each their own :)
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Yes a motor vehicle is dangerous and getting into one with an EMT carrying a gun makes you a real idiot. That doubles the possibility of dying in that ambulance.
 
And, that, ladies and gents, is why I'm resuming my boycott.

Irregardless of the oral arguments (Hi Vent!).

I'm a sheriff dept employee, retired USAF and Air GUard, qualified with M16 and M9, grew up around firearms. You're kicking the wrong shins, sonny. ;)
 
VentMedic said:
Of what use is the gun if it is not readily available? By the time you are confronted and then fumble around to get it out of concealment, I doubt if you will be the winner. Didn't they teach you that in your conceal weapon class?
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You doubt? Oh well VentMedic, do tell us!

How many gunfights have you been in? How many have you witnessed, first hand? How many tours in Iraq? Shifts on a SWAT team?


Why, zero you say?

Well, the four years I spent in the Marine Corps taught me just a teensy bit about war-making. The firearms instructors that I've sought out for private tutelage, such as Clint Smith and James Yeager, have been on SWAT teams, police chiefs, and Yeager has done a few tours in Iraq and A-Stan as a trainer. Both have been in handgun fights, both have been shot at and returned fire. The combined census is that you should be able to draw from a concealed carry position and dump three rounds into a soccer ball, at 7m, within two seconds.

But perhaps you'd care to enlighten us as to what classes you've attended, and the theory that they've shown?

Also, once again, you're back at the "It might not work" clause. That's like saying that a defib might not work, or that gauze might not stop the bleeding, so why even bother. If it doesn't work, then at least I get shot trying to protect myself rather than duct-taped and on my knees somewhere.

I'm not an EMT yet, so you'll note I don't go into EMT threads and try to criticize or infuse my views. How much experience do you have with pistolcraft?
 
VentMedic said:
I see you don't know the difference between an EMT and an LEO. Is this why you confuse who should be carrying a gun and trying to play the cop role?
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I'm just wondering why "Person X with a gun" is OK but "Person Y with a gun" is so horrible that someone would refuse their treatment. I'm also curious as to how they'd even know. Of course, I've given you multiple LENGTHY replies in this thread, and then you just toodle-ooo off, don't bother answering, then pop in without answering the questions.

Yes a motor vehicle is dangerous and getting into one with an EMT carrying a gun makes you a real idiot. That doubles the possibility of dying in that ambulance.
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Doubles? I'm sure you've got some well-sourced, peer reviewed source for that statistic, right? You surely didn't just extract that from your own posterior, did you? Oh, you did? Well, don't let things like "facts" and "reality" slow down your emotional response.

Just so you can ignore my posts completely,
http://www.emtlife.com/showpost.php?p=188805&postcount=171
those are the other questions I asked you earlier, that you've completely ignored.
 
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