gonefishing
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Also if full time work is available but not offered can also be seen as segregation or black balling.
SD EMS wage protest.
- Thread starter SandpitMedic
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OP
SandpitMedic
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We seem to take for granted the knowledge bestowed upon us based on years of research and intelligent debate. I can't count on my hands and feet combined the number of family members and friends who immediately turn to me for medical advice. Whether that is a knee replacement, a PFO, cessation of smoking, breast cancer, or a simple cut on the hand that does not require much. We are in this life. We love this and we live this everyday. We forget how knowledgeable we actually are. While to one person a procedure may seem a monkey skill... To anyone else it would be a life altering, life saving skill that they couldn't imagine doing. I'm not talking about the Hollywood aspect. Im talking the 645am drunk chick that slams into a telephone pole and crushes her jaw... There is blood, there are teeth, there is tissue, there is a 99.99% chance she meets her maker. There is a company of rescuemen assigned to control the power lines and her car. There is a battle for her airway amongst responders due to the safety concerns. She is provided bag valve mask rescue breathing with high flow oxygen while they cut her out for 23 minutes while the top of her is exposed yet nothing invasive is done. Then she is transferred to the paramedic ambulance (private) where she is treated. Through the blood bubbles a secure airway via ET tube is estaished at a ventilation rate of 8-10; there are teeth, emesis, and little anatomical guidance due to the destruction of her head. She is provided an analgesic (low dose) to prevent airway or circulation issues. A large bore IV is established with volume replacement. And she's transported to the trauma ER.
Later she is found to have been discharged. She now lives a quality of life equal to what she had, with the added burden of driving drunk and killing her best friend.
Life sucks.
We are here to do what we can to make it better. I could give two ****s if you are a basic or a medic from California or Florida... Don't you dare tell me what I have or haven't done. Don't you tell me "for what we do we make enough" or "for our time actually responding we do okay." That is brainwashing ********. I have been to the valley of the shadow of death. And I have overcome it. I don't have a hero complex. I'm an anon on an Internet forum, so **** you. I don't care for anyone to hear my stories. But don't tell me my opinion doesn't matter like I'm just some ******* trying to persuade you that private EMS deserves better.
We all deserve equal treatment and pay; we all have the same cert and do the same job. ALL OF US! The police, the fire departments, the paramedics. The RN at the triage window....
ALL of us! We all put our necks out there, and we all make a difference. We don't do it because of public support. We do it because we care.
We are professionals, and as soon as we start acting like it we will get what we have earned and deserve.
Later she is found to have been discharged. She now lives a quality of life equal to what she had, with the added burden of driving drunk and killing her best friend.
Life sucks.
We are here to do what we can to make it better. I could give two ****s if you are a basic or a medic from California or Florida... Don't you dare tell me what I have or haven't done. Don't you tell me "for what we do we make enough" or "for our time actually responding we do okay." That is brainwashing ********. I have been to the valley of the shadow of death. And I have overcome it. I don't have a hero complex. I'm an anon on an Internet forum, so **** you. I don't care for anyone to hear my stories. But don't tell me my opinion doesn't matter like I'm just some ******* trying to persuade you that private EMS deserves better.
We all deserve equal treatment and pay; we all have the same cert and do the same job. ALL OF US! The police, the fire departments, the paramedics. The RN at the triage window....
ALL of us! We all put our necks out there, and we all make a difference. We don't do it because of public support. We do it because we care.
We are professionals, and as soon as we start acting like it we will get what we have earned and deserve.
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squirrel15
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Huh? I think it would be best you just stop posting... Your going on a tangent that's unjustified, unless somewhere a post was moderated that I didn't see.
I agree to both sides though. I hate how little I'm paid, especially where I live and the hours I work to make a decent living. But, I work IFT as an EMT, we are hired based on having a pulse and being capable of showing up to an interview after applying. And in a 50 hour week I may work a total of 15 of those hours. To say I deserve more money, quite honestly I dont believe that I do, even if I was a medic, I dont believe the amount of actual work I put in deserves higher pay. No matter how much I would like it, even with those days running nonstop for 12 hours, the next 3 or 4 days I could be doing nothing.
I feel we have an important job within the EMS field, but even on 911, considering the amount of actual hours worked in a week, justifying more pay can be difficult. Yes there are days you have to deal with awful situations and you get to go home feeling good about yourself for doing something, and feel you deserve more pay. But what about those days you sit doing nothing? Should you company not have to pay you then since you did nothing? Would you like to be paid how EMS workers used to be, where it was all dependent on the calls you ran? Higher pay for running calls, but no pay of you do nothing. No thank you.
MrJones
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SeeNoMore
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I completely agree with you about supporting EMS workers who are organizing on the job, but your post seems a little dramatic. If we want to be treated like professionals we can't go around talking about the shadow of death and all of our heroic airways. We are employed in EMS. It should be considered routine to intervene in the ways you have described.
EMT2015
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How is this any different from fire? You could say the same thing about fire, but yet they still get payed way better than EMS. Where I live, I wouldn't be able to live off the pay of an EMT.
Side note: Why is everyone acting like 5-year-olds trying to prove their point? What kind of message do you guys think you're sending to the newbies like myself? I think it's time to start acting like the great EMS professionals that you guys are.
squirrel15
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The difference is private and public services. Which is why EMTs and medics working for FDs on an ambulance make more. In a private service, their end goal is to make money, where as the public government services are just that, a service. While it sucks, we all have to understand capitalism, and with that, they are going to try and do more with less, so they make more.
gonefishing
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Not true. Alot of private services are actually cheaper than most ems based FD's. Most of the funds have been scrutinized as well because instead of going to simple things they have to go buy the big giant international brand ambulance because it looks like big red. Alot of it is justification for fire jobs. The IAFF likes to keep private ambulances out of the game.
squirrel15
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Are you talking billing wise? Or overall cost? I was being narrow minded in my post and addressing only pay of employees
OP
OP
SandpitMedic
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EXACTLY! So don't compare me to a burger flipper or a garbage man. We routinely do those kinds of things, and we should be paid a living wage.
That's my point. Dramatic? Sure, but it drives my point home.
gonefishing
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Overall cost.
JPINFV
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That doesn't make it less true. I can always post the hack jobs that the OC Fire Departments were releasing last year when OC was introducing private company paramedics. The press reports that the OC firefighters were releasing make Loose Change look sane.
squirrel15
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No arguments from me here, like I said I was narrow minded in my post.
SeeNoMore
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I think everyone deserves a living wage. I don't think I'm more heroic than a garbage man. We are medical professionals. Not heroes.
What are their work hours? 40? 42? 48? 56? That is important.
$15/hr on a 40 hour schedule is horrendous for San Diego, but if you're working an average 48 or 56 hour week, then you're doing quite well for private EMS. The difference in pay would be $39k/yr vs $48,360 vs. $57,720. Remember, this is private EMS. Most people use it as a stepping stone job, and there is plenty of supply, so the wages will never compare well to hospital based EMS, let alone fire based.
When I lived and worked in NYC, the private EMS salaries were static, $9/hr to $10/hr starting for BLS, and $19/hr to $21/hr for medics, with paltry raises. So, if San Diego is paying $15/hr for new medics on a 40 hr schedule, they are being underpaid for private EMS. If $15/hr is starting for a basic, they're doing quite well, IMO. Northern VA pays EMT's $9-$10/hr, and medics $15-$18/hr, with a high cost of living, equivalent or a little more expensive than the outer boroughs of NYC. You're not going to do much better than that in the privates no matter where you go. It sucks, but that is how EMS is across the country.
As others have said, relocation is a must if you have your heart set on EMS as a long term career, and cannot (do not want to) get hired by a fire department. My family and I moved from NYC to Charleston SC, then to Northern VA to get the career with acceptable salary and benefits. If you're dedicated to EMS, relocation is often a necessary evil to do well financially for the long term.
$15/hr on a 40 hour schedule is horrendous for San Diego, but if you're working an average 48 or 56 hour week, then you're doing quite well for private EMS. The difference in pay would be $39k/yr vs $48,360 vs. $57,720. Remember, this is private EMS. Most people use it as a stepping stone job, and there is plenty of supply, so the wages will never compare well to hospital based EMS, let alone fire based.
When I lived and worked in NYC, the private EMS salaries were static, $9/hr to $10/hr starting for BLS, and $19/hr to $21/hr for medics, with paltry raises. So, if San Diego is paying $15/hr for new medics on a 40 hr schedule, they are being underpaid for private EMS. If $15/hr is starting for a basic, they're doing quite well, IMO. Northern VA pays EMT's $9-$10/hr, and medics $15-$18/hr, with a high cost of living, equivalent or a little more expensive than the outer boroughs of NYC. You're not going to do much better than that in the privates no matter where you go. It sucks, but that is how EMS is across the country.
As others have said, relocation is a must if you have your heart set on EMS as a long term career, and cannot (do not want to) get hired by a fire department. My family and I moved from NYC to Charleston SC, then to Northern VA to get the career with acceptable salary and benefits. If you're dedicated to EMS, relocation is often a necessary evil to do well financially for the long term.
Do you agree or disagree with this comment found with the original article?
Rolando Medina · Chaffey College
About time EMS stands up for our low wages. Very little advancement opportunities unless your extremely fortunate to get picked up by fire. I think that has a lot to do with why more folks in EMS don't complain: they don't want any marks on their work history when applying for fire positions. It's good that a few brave individuals are standing up to management and risking their careers for decent wages in our field.
Rolando Medina · Chaffey College
About time EMS stands up for our low wages. Very little advancement opportunities unless your extremely fortunate to get picked up by fire. I think that has a lot to do with why more folks in EMS don't complain: they don't want any marks on their work history when applying for fire positions. It's good that a few brave individuals are standing up to management and risking their careers for decent wages in our field.
Same question, this comment:
Jack Wilner · Top Commenter · Van Nuys Senior High
Rather than telling the Public what your Hourly wage is, I would like to know what your Annual Income is, as well as the number of hours you work a shift. If you work 8 hour shifts, or 40 hours a week, you have a real issue that needs addressing. If you work 24 hour shifts, and you are paid for all 24 hours, you have no dog in the fight. If you want sympathy, tell the whole truth. I was a Paramedic for 16 years and we worked 10 days a month like the Fire Departments.....our wage was based on 40 hour weeks, with anything more as overtime. If I was making $12 or $14 an hour you are talking a very decent wage. If you work 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off 1 on then get 4 days off and come back and work 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, then 6 days off, (which is standard Kelly days) your 1st week is 72 hours, (40 hours regular and 32 overtime) for a 2 week paycheck..that's $2112 gross, you next check would be slightly lower. By my calculation you are earning about $60k a year without working any of the 20 days off you have a month.....Cost of living is a huge issue in certain areas (San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara) but industry standard has a lot to do with it. I want you to show me a "Private" Company Paramedic or EMT that's making $100k a year, that's just a lie.
Jack Wilner · Top Commenter · Van Nuys Senior High
Rather than telling the Public what your Hourly wage is, I would like to know what your Annual Income is, as well as the number of hours you work a shift. If you work 8 hour shifts, or 40 hours a week, you have a real issue that needs addressing. If you work 24 hour shifts, and you are paid for all 24 hours, you have no dog in the fight. If you want sympathy, tell the whole truth. I was a Paramedic for 16 years and we worked 10 days a month like the Fire Departments.....our wage was based on 40 hour weeks, with anything more as overtime. If I was making $12 or $14 an hour you are talking a very decent wage. If you work 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off 1 on then get 4 days off and come back and work 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, 1 off, 1 on, then 6 days off, (which is standard Kelly days) your 1st week is 72 hours, (40 hours regular and 32 overtime) for a 2 week paycheck..that's $2112 gross, you next check would be slightly lower. By my calculation you are earning about $60k a year without working any of the 20 days off you have a month.....Cost of living is a huge issue in certain areas (San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara) but industry standard has a lot to do with it. I want you to show me a "Private" Company Paramedic or EMT that's making $100k a year, that's just a lie.
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As part of the concept of "fairness", I don't disagree one bit.
Unfortunately, results in life aren't based on fairness. The economic reality here is that workers are generally paid for what their labor is worth, rather than how "important" their job is. This is why basketball players and actors who simply entertain earn far more than neurosurgeons who save lives and federal judges who literally set the course for the fate of our republic. It's why nerdy accountants working in the back room of a bank earn far more than E4's kicking down doors in the middle east.
What our labor is worth is determined largely by the educational and experiential investment required to become qualified for the position. Things like the desirability of the locale where the position exists are important factors, too, because that affects the supply of labor relative to the demand for it - in the employer's favor, if we are talking about an in-demand place to live.
For these reasons, it's not a good economic position to be in as someone with one semester (EMT) or even one year (paramedic) of education trying to find a good job in one of the most desirable places to live in the country (San Diego). Protesting probably won't help them much.
Fire and police have convinced society that their mere availability is worth much more than what they actually produce, which is why they are typically compensated so much better than EMS.
EMS won't be compensated the same way until the find a way to get paid for their potential rather that for what they actually do in a typical shift.
Sadly several posts in this thread completely debunk that opinion.............
DrankTheKoolaid
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First let me say that it really sucks you are unable to make a living wage after taking a single semester course.
Here's the reality. You are a VERY small cog in a VERY large machine.
That machine runs on reimbursements from federal and state Medicaid and a minority of private pay and private insurance. Private EMS is just that, a private business that needs to remain profitable to stay competitive in RFP's, equipment replacement and benefit its shareholders. It is a harsh reality, but that is what it is.
Fire on the other hand are city and county entities and are able to pay higher wages because they are not reliant on reimbursement from services rendered. As well adding EMS makes the monetary drain in a city/county budget by fire departments more palatable.
Now look at the big picture. Nationwide there are more volunteer EMTs and Paramedics who are likely better trained the most paid responders. And I say that because it is not work to the it is a passion.
So why would big insurance both government and private increase reimbursements without some major change in ems system and product?
Until we as a whole do something to improve ourselves we will remain right where we are at.
Here's the reality. You are a VERY small cog in a VERY large machine.
That machine runs on reimbursements from federal and state Medicaid and a minority of private pay and private insurance. Private EMS is just that, a private business that needs to remain profitable to stay competitive in RFP's, equipment replacement and benefit its shareholders. It is a harsh reality, but that is what it is.
Fire on the other hand are city and county entities and are able to pay higher wages because they are not reliant on reimbursement from services rendered. As well adding EMS makes the monetary drain in a city/county budget by fire departments more palatable.
Now look at the big picture. Nationwide there are more volunteer EMTs and Paramedics who are likely better trained the most paid responders. And I say that because it is not work to the it is a passion.
So why would big insurance both government and private increase reimbursements without some major change in ems system and product?
Until we as a whole do something to improve ourselves we will remain right where we are at.