Scene not safe- why do you still enter?

I don't believe anyone at that venue had a clear idea of what was happening or where the gunfire was coming from for a long time. Most first-responders would probably assume a gang fight across the street, a drive-by or something other than barricaded sniper 400 yards away.

He probably dropped into his training, and got task-focused. He may have felt committed to his patient and been unwilling to cease care and GTFO once it became apparent that it was still not safe to be there.
 
As someone who was there in the midst of it all. It became evident what was happening, just not where the shots were coming from relatively quickly. I chose to stay inside and help, as did a lot of active and retired first responders and military. I fault nobody for choosing to leave even those working and on duty if any of them left and found cover. If you ask why I stayed, I don't have a full answer for you, because I really don't know why entirely myself but it felt like the right thing to do, and for the reasons below.

Those inside stayed to help the best we could, and knew that any amount of help was a long ways out and weren't going to be able to get inside And we were prettt much it. On duty law enforcement did everything they could for us and on duty ems/fire did everything as well and allowed us to perform as if we were on duty as well. It was truly amazing to be a part of see everyone come together.

Why was he doing CPR? Who knows, who cares, he was trying to help and did what he was able to come up with, all while his mind was most likely racing in a way he had never felt. If anyone wants to judge people for staying inside do as you wish, but the knowledge was there something had to be done to allow the arriving help to provide the best care possible.

To those affected I am sorry you are going through this. I was fortunate enough to be uninjured and everyone I know was uninjured.
 
It all sounds interesting- really it does.

But what are the very first words out of our mouths, the very first question we are- "is the scene safe?" If not then you wait until the cops clear you in.

I've read 12+ firefighters were shot. I know of the Hero Complex but that's ridiculous.
 
Alan L Serve said:
It all sounds interesting- really it does.

But what are the very first words out of our mouths, the very first question we are- "is the scene safe?" If not then you wait until the cops clear you in.

I've read 12+ firefighters were shot. I know of the Hero Complex but that's ridiculous.
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How many were shot on duty? How many were off duty and found themselves in a shooting gallery?

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk
 
Alan L Serve said:
But what are the very first words out of our mouths, the very first question we are- "is the scene safe?" If not then you wait until the cops clear you in.
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if i was in a situation where i was there, my first thought is "get my family and friends the fk out", once they're out then i decide my own fate and what i'll do.
If i'm on duty. refer to my previous post.
 
Alan L Serve said:
I don't know but "scene safety" applies if you are either on or off duty. Right?
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And how easily can a "safe" scene quickly cease to be?

Again, why does it matter? You may think it is a hero complex, while to them it is doing the right thing. I'm glad we have people like them. It's people like that who nut up and put the well being of others first that help make things like this a little better than it could have been or at the very least show the good side of people in times like this.
 
Alan L Serve said:
I don't know but "scene safety" applies if you are either on or off duty. Right?
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"We are so lucky to have men around who are never willing to put themselves at risk in order to help their fellow man" said no one ever.

Ever hear the phrase "women and children first"? I have a feeling that means something to many of the guys on here, but apparently you aren't one of them.
 
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Alan L Serve said:
I don't know but "scene safety" applies if you are either on or off duty. Right?
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If thats your way of thinking then I'll show you to the door where the sheep will leave and the sheep dog's will stay behind. No harm, no foul.
 
Alan L Serve said:
I don't know but "scene safety" applies if you are either on or off duty. Right?
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Again, most of those injured were off duty and just attending the concert.

I really am curious what type of safety you think was possible in that situation. For many people there was no way to find cover and not way to escape. It was a perfectly planned out massacre with an elevated firing position and a killing field below.

I think we should just agree to disagree. I do not think many people here share your opinion. You would stay back and wait for the dust to clear while others would run towards the danger and help however possible. No one denies that waiting for the scene to be safe is the prudent course of action but some just don't care. Personally, I don't think I could sleep at night knowing I sat there and waited while people could have been helped. "So Others May Live"
 
Alan L Serve said:
But what are the very first words out of our mouths, the very first question we are- "is the scene safe?" If not then you wait until the cops clear you in.

I've read 12+ firefighters were shot. I know of the Hero Complex but that's ridiculous.
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Let me clear something up for you. yes, 12 firefighters were shot. out of 500+ concert goers. They were off duty. Two of them were shot while helping others. Was the scene safe? hell no. but its not like these guys were across the street and ran to help out (that would be hero complex).

These guys were being actively shot at while in the audience, found themselves in the middle of an MCI, and they decided to help those who were wounded. The two of them who got shot while doing CPR deserve medals and praise for their heroism.

Personally, i wouldn't have done CPR, but I would try to do as much bleeding control as I could.
 
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Alan, if you choose to leave, nobody will judge you for that. But to judge others is almost amusing. I sure hope that your snowflake is built into a beautiful snowman.
 
I don't live my life based on oversimplified cliche's that I learned on the first day of EMT class. Making EMT students repeat "scene safety" over and over again may help drill the idea into their head, but I don't see how it applies to being caught in the middle of an MCI.

I don't think any of us know how we'd react in a situation like that until it happens. Personally, I hope that I'd be able to remain calm and clear-headed and would have the courage and wits to help others as much as possible, even if it does increase my risk some. Blindly running into a killing field probably isn't very smart in any case, but hysterically running away and trampling people while ignoring the cries of terrified and bleeding fellow humans just because "scene safety" isn't the kind of person I have ever wanted to be.
 
They did what they felt they should do while they were in that situation. It is completely futile of me to judge in any way. Perhaps to think about it, there's always something to learn from every situation, but while I sit here in my living room in Indiana, far from the gravity and reality of the moment of that situation, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it was like "in the moment" for the people attending that concert. It is a moment that will change their lives forever, they deserve our compassion for what they've been through.
 
Let's not forget the one(s) who laid their lives down for their wives- true and noble heroism.

A truly tragic day, but like someone else mentioned the comradeship that these things seem to bring is nothing short of astonishing. It gives hope, and meaning to humanity.

@Alan L Serve, really man?...
 
I couldn't judge them for doing what they thought they should do. I imagine I'd do something similar (well maybe not CPR) but I'm not going to pretend that I can imagine what it's really like.
 
AtlasFlyer said:
They did what they felt they should do while they were in that situation. It is completely futile of me to judge in any way. Perhaps to think about it, there's always something to learn from every situation, but while I sit here in my living room in Indiana, far from the gravity and reality of the moment of that situation, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what it was like "in the moment" for the people attending that concert. It is a moment that will change their lives forever, they deserve our compassion for what they've been through.
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How many EMS and Fire type people were at the show at the Indiana State Fair a few years ago when the stage display blew down and went right to work without waiting to secure the equipment? From what I understand all the people were rescued and transported BEFORE the equipment was secure.
Are we trained to wait till the scene is safe? Yes we are, even on the fire side: but who usually secures the scene? Fire and EMS, sometimes with help of the police: but I was on scene of a stabbing a couple of years ago when the police on scene had an accidental discharge: the police (who were supposedly there to protect us) were the problem at that time, the ones making it unsafe.

If you want to work in a totally secure scene get out of EMS, can't even do that at home
 
Remi said:
"We are so lucky to have men around who are never willing to put themselves at risk in order to help their fellow man" said no one ever.

Ever hear the phrase "women and children first"? I have a feeling that means something to many of the guys on here, but apparently you aren't one of them.
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Beat me to the punch once again. I am not for being totally wreckless, but at the end of the day I am a man, with a set, and would do everything in my capability to protect and evac my wife first, then as many other people I could after knowing she was safe if I was there. Alan clearly would have nobody's 6.
 
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