Rubberneckers, Lookie Loos, and other Civilian Interference Stories

Its on Fire !

OK I have to share this one.

I was coming home from work and two cars one tried to make the left at the last second, well he went into the embankment to avoid the incoming traffic. He by the way gets out of his car and was like
" wow that was fun ... "
he was funny and OK. The oncoming car swerved and slammed himself into the telephone pole. He was thrown from the drivers seat into the passengers foot space. - yet, up and talking. Anyways I come on scene and this one lady is cause more drama to the scene than is needed by screaming
" don't go near the car, its on fire"
I am no fire fighter, but it was clearly not on fire at all. she yells
" its coming from the middle of the steering wheel"
I take a look from a bit away,and not even remotely close to being on fire. So she is yelling again, " its on fire" She is in my way from trying to figure out how to gain access to the car to get to the other patient. Squad shows up and I have Cspine held for the patient and the lady is still yelling !!! ...
" why are you going to the car?! - Its on fire" I finally yell back.
" Mam! Its not on fire or I wouldn't be in it !"
The squad member turns to me as she is assessing the lac across the guys face asks me " who is that lady??"
The patient responds saying ..
" The hell if I know but that moron needs to shut the hell up"

Hahaha It was a good call I would say but bystanders sometimes drive me crazy who try to cause drama in an already dramatic situation.
 
Okay, so I've only had a first responder certification for 35 years now. This was 15 years ago and I was working an extra job as Security at a Six Flags park (at the time I also had a Peace Officer and Firefighter certification, and was working both-one part time). On this particular evening, they had closed part of the park due to electrical problems. I had a trainee with me and we recived a call of an unknown problem on one of the closed rides.

We arrived and one of the kids tells us a girl is stuck and he points at a spot about fifty feet off the ground. We climb the track and find a girl laying on the track. Her body is bent, mid body, pretty much at a forty five degree angle. As I survey the scene, she says "I can't feel anything".

I squat down and immobilize her neck/head. I then give the trainee instructions on how to radio in for the right kind of equipment/personnel-because this is going to be a very tricky extraction. Meanwhile, I keep the girl calm and keep a steady conversation with her to keep her from freaking out.

After a while, we had probably six EMT's on scene as well as the head of the EMT program and a whole slew of park managers. We were all trying to figure out the best way to do this extraction. Just as we get ready to make the move, the park safety director bellows out to me "Do you have a level one EMT certification?"

"You know I'm just a first responder" (I had known this uppity jerk about a year).

"Well then, get out of the way and let someone who knows what they're doing do the job." (way to bolster the patient's confidence).

I moved and the senior EMT took my spot.
 
Would have been better to get someone who knew how to deal with the problem and treat the pt!
 
Ya Know, I have to agree. Its nothing against first responders, nothing at all. you do fine work. but when someone with higher training shows up, they really should ( int he best interest of the patient) take over care. same with emts and medics show up. Its not to say you go away , or leave,. but just assist them. Because as an emt, there might be something that might be so slight that we notice, that maybe someone else might not pick up on. Happens all the times with the medics i work with. They are great they teach me a lot, the ones who dont think they are god, the others really like to teach stuff when the drama is over. Thats always helpful
 
Trauma's Mistress said:
Ya Know, I have to agree. Its nothing against first responders, nothing at all. you do fine work. but when someone with higher training shows up, they really should ( int he best interest of the patient) take over care. same with emts and medics show up. Its not to say you go away , or leave,. but just assist them. Because as an emt, there might be something that might be so slight that we notice, that maybe someone else might not pick up on. Happens all the times with the medics i work with. They are great they teach me a lot, the ones who dont think they are god, the others really like to teach stuff when the drama is over. Thats always helpful
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I have to disagree. In most situations I would rather have a FR with 20 years experience overn a greenhorn EMT fresh out of training.
 
Trauma's Mistress said:
Ya Know, I have to agree. Its nothing against first responders, nothing at all. you do fine work. but when someone with higher training shows up, they really should ( int he best interest of the patient) take over care. same with emts and medics show up. Its not to say you go away , or leave,. but just assist them. Because as an emt, there might be something that might be so slight that we notice, that maybe someone else might not pick up on. Happens all the times with the medics i work with. They are great they teach me a lot, the ones who dont think they are god, the others really like to teach stuff when the drama is over. Thats always helpful
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This is a tricky situation. If the FR is doing a fairly good job, let them help. If they are doing something wrong and can be corrected, do that. If they have no idea what they are doing, take over from them.

But here is the thing. All interaction with first responders HAVE to be professional and appropriate. If I'm the EMT, and I come to a scene where a FR is doing something incorrectly, and I say "What the hell are you doing? Get the hell out of the way!" do you think I am going to instill confidence in my patient, any bystanders, and the FR themselves? No! But if I come on scene and say "Hello Sir/Ma'am, could you do this for me?" I've created a connection with them. Even though they may not be doing a fantastic job, they are part of the team. And as part of the team, they MUST be treated as such.

As an EMT, we need to realize that we are NOT just treating the patient. Yes, they are the reason we're there, but there may be others on the scene as well. And if these others have a connection to the patient, by "treating" them (which could be as easy as being polite) we could decrease the stress level of the situation, which could EASILY make a difference for the patient.
 
Why information is always good

This is a story I heard from a local Search-and-Rescue ranger working out of the Appalachians. Keep in mind that this mountain has a 2 mile, winding+rocky trail on the ascent, and is roughly 35 miles from the nearest hospital.

A woman injures herself on the top of the mountain, and a bystander runs down and reports it as a "back injury". Since they have no idea what they will run into, they mobilize everything up to having an helicopter extraction team on standby.
They arrive at the base of the mountain and set up stretchers, gather materials, etc. At this point dusk is rapidly approaching, so they decide to call in the helicopter for rapid transport.
They arrive to find a 40-something women leaning against a tree, with a broken arm, having waited for 4 hours after slipping and falling. She reports a man stopped by, and asked what happened. She said "I fell", and he takes off down the mountain.
She was fined for the medical provisions, a sum probably in the $300-$800 range.

All because somebody took off without letting the pt. finish :mellow:
 
s4l said:
I have to disagree. In most situations I would rather have a FR with 20 years experience overn a greenhorn EMT fresh out of training.
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This is another sad statement about EMS education. The EMT is too short and the FR is only a few hours less.
 
s4l said:
I have to disagree. In most situations I would rather have a FR with 20 years experience overn a greenhorn EMT fresh out of training.
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We might, but doesn't it cause legal issues because the EMT (or paramedic) takes clinical responsibility regardless of who's doing what on scene?
 
s4l said:
I have to disagree. In most situations I would rather have a FR with 20 years experience overn a greenhorn EMT fresh out of training.
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There are times on scene that I trust the department's first responders just as much or more than I would trust myself. Their experience makes up for what I have learned over them.

Its the same as the old arguement. Which doctor do you want? The old doctor that has years experience but may have forgotten a few things. Or the one fresh out of school that may know it all by the book, but has no practical experience.
 
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I had a bystander on new year's eve that were I not tied up w/ Pt. care I might have gotten into it with.

Bad MVC. Single 18y/o M pt. We've finally got him extricated and were finishing packaging when I see person dressed in a hi-vis shirt approach one of the LEO's and say "I'm not actually part of this scene, but my kids are in the car and I really need to get through."

In my fantasy world, my response goes like this:
"Oh, your kids are in the car?! I'm sorry. This is someone else's kids. We'll stop working on him and get all this crap out of the way for you. I mean if that was your kid there I'm sure you'd want us to stop so some a**hole can get through, right?"
 
Where there's fire, the morons will follow

About 3 years ago when I was still a probie FF, we were having our monthly drill., Next thing the buzzer goes off, the call is wires down sparking on the other side of town right behind the sub-station., We get on scene and we find that a tractor trailer tried to turn around and in the process snapped the pole and knocked down the wires right by the fuel tanks., And of course the trailer caught fire., I was on crowd/traffic control, not only did rubberneckers nearly causing accidents in front of them, I get this genius walking up to me asking when is the cable going to be fixed., Apparently he couldn't figure out what CFD on my coat meant., I simply told him that I don't know and to return to his house., About 15 minutes later guess who's back., This time I told him if he asks me again he'll have a good chat with my cop buddy., He didn't return so I figured he was smart enough to get the message.
 
njff/emt said:
About 3 years ago when I was still a probie FF, we were having our monthly drill., Next thing the buzzer goes off, the call is wires down sparking on the other side of town right behind the sub-station., We get on scene and we find that a tractor trailer tried to turn around and in the process snapped the pole and knocked down the wires right by the fuel tanks., And of course the trailer caught fire., I was on crowd/traffic control, not only did rubberneckers nearly causing accidents in front of them, I get this genius walking up to me asking when is the cable going to be fixed., Apparently he couldn't figure out what CFD on my coat meant., I simply told him that I don't know and to return to his house., About 15 minutes later guess who's back., This time I told him if he asks me again he'll have a good chat with my cop buddy., He didn't return so I figured he was smart enough to get the message.
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He probably had his 'World of Warcraft' session disrupted. Never get between an addict and their obsession! :-)
 
RuralEMT said:
There are times on scene that I trust the department's first responders just as much or more than I would trust myself. Their experience makes up for what I have learned over them.

Its the same as the old arguement. Which doctor do you want? The old doctor that has years experience but may have forgotten a few things. Or the one fresh out of school that may know it all by the book, but has no practical experience.
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Although I am an EMT-B. i am fairly new (under a year). I was working as a first responder during a huge Mardi Gras parade and was called out with a first aider (under first responder) to a dislocated shoulder. I came to pt who wasnt in too much pain but who a bit to drink so i still believed he need O2 (pt was also very pale and his lips were blue. So i called in to the other first responder who has been doing this for about 10 years to bring in o2 and when he showed up he said the pt didnt need it. (the first responder o2 only flows at 6 lpm so it wouldnt even be nearly as effective and was really supposed to be used in respiratory emergencies) Although i disagreed he was senior on scene even though my training was more extensive I had to listen to him. I ended up dispatching EMS because he need to get his shoulder set as well as he needed o2.

I explained my reasoning to him after and he say that it wouldnt have hurt him but since EMS was 2 mins out, that it could wait and since he wasnt having any trouble breathing.

Did I do the right thing here regarding chain of command?
 
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feldy said:
Although I am an EMT-B. i am fairly new (under a year). I was working as a first responder during a huge Mardi Gras parade and was called out with a first aider (under first responder) to a dislocated shoulder. I came to pt who wasnt in too much pain but who a bit to drink so i still believed he need O2 (pt was also very pale and his lips were blue. So i called in to the other first responder who has been doing this for about 10 years to bring in o2 and when he showed up he said the pt didnt need it. (the first responder o2 only flows at 6 lpm so it wouldnt even be nearly as effective and was really supposed to be used in respiratory emergencies) Although i disagreed he was senior on scene even though my training was more extensive I had to listen to him. I ended up dispatching EMS because he need to get his shoulder set as well as he needed o2.

I explained my reasoning to him after and he say that it wouldnt have hurt him but since EMS was 2 mins out, that it could wait and since he wasnt having any trouble breathing.

Did I do the right thing here regarding chain of command?
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That's a toughie. Part of it depends on your agency protocols. Are you in charge of the scene? If so, you do what you feel is best for the patient, so long as you stay within your local practice protocols. is these scene given over to a more epxerienced EMT or Medics when they arrive? If so, do waht you know is good for the patient, within the expectations of the arriving units.

When in doubt, come back to the basics: ABC. Always protect ABC and your patient care will not do any harm and quite a bit of good. If you got O2 and you think the person needs it, give it. If you get barked at later, then you've learned something about how your agency wants you to operate in the field.

One of the things I had to learn to get over was always second-guessing myself after a call. One of my partners helped me get over that. You were there and made the call you felt needed to be made. Unless you really F*** up, and you'll know when you do, let it go. Don't dwell on it. Each call is an opportunity to learn and improve, but don't beat yourself up.
 
Scottpre said:
That's a toughie. Part of it depends on your agency protocols. Are you in charge of the scene? If so, you do what you feel is best for the patient, so long as you stay within your local practice protocols. is these scene given over to a more epxerienced EMT or Medics when they arrive? If so, do waht you know is good for the patient, within the expectations of the arriving units.

When in doubt, come back to the basics: ABC. Always protect ABC and your patient care will not do any harm and quite a bit of good. If you got O2 and you think the person needs it, give it. If you get barked at later, then you've learned something about how your agency wants you to operate in the field.

One of the things I had to learn to get over was always second-guessing myself after a call. One of my partners helped me get over that. You were there and made the call you felt needed to be made. Unless you really F*** up, and you'll know when you do, let it go. Don't dwell on it. Each call is an opportunity to learn and improve, but don't beat yourself up.
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Thanks...it came down to he didnt have trouble breathing and I had EMS in a QRV on their way. Monitored his resps mulitple times to make sure his breathing was okay, im still not sure why his lips were blue but I know EMS put him on o2 once i transferred care. Becuase (where i was working for the Red Cross, they didnt expect us to put any pts. on o2 so I wasnt that worried. Plus I has other pts to attend to afterward so I forgot about it until I read this thread. I would have been only as precaution, not a necessity.
 
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