RN to Paramedic...

[hogwiley]

By just letting RNs test out as Paramedics or giving them some crash course with no clinicals and no field internship, you are making an assumption they have an aptitude for something they may not have.

Nursing is a large enough and varied field that RNs can find their niche, which may not be in any acute care setting, much less EMS, but as a Paramedic your niche has to be emergency medicine. I'm not sure its such a great idea to just assume every RN who has a desire to get a Paramedic license can actually handle the job.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Oh and why is the Nurse a "She" and the MD a "He". That is sexist, Bro

Today, men still only make up between 5%–10% of the nursing workforce in the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada. - See more at: http://www.minoritynurse.com/articl...urses-perceptions-gender#sthash.27HvxIA2.dpuf

 

[Summit]

By just letting RNs test out as Paramedics or giving them some crash course with no clinicals and no field internship, you are making an assumption they have an aptitude for something they may not have.

Nursing is a large enough and varied field that RNs can find their niche, which may not be in any acute care setting, much less EMS, but as a Paramedic your niche has to be emergency medicine. I'm not sure its such a great idea to just assume every RN who has a desire to get a Paramedic license can actually handle the job.

So I'm not sure if you are reading other responses or not, but ill reiterate.

The program requires RN+EMT + 2 years of ICU/ED + ACLS/PALS and all students are expected to self-learn all the paramedic didactic that they don't already k ow prior to showing up.

The program at Creighton, which as I understandd is primarily ambulance rides, labs and hospital clinical, (it is 2 weeks but 140 hours) to allow students to do paramedic management and skills they don't do in the ICU/ED.

The vast majority of the RNs in that program have more than 2 years experience and are working flight RNs being sponsored by their employer.

 

[Carlos Danger]

If you attended a standard Paramedic program (not 2 weeks) and also standard nursing program you should clearly see a distinction of how the jobs differ, and how the schooling and rotations specifically prepare you for said job.

I already described my background, which obviously influences what I know to be true on this issue.

Being that you have not completed an RN program and then spent several years working in critical care, I really don't see what you even base your opinion on, or how you feel you can challenge me on what I should "see".

I am quite confident you that if you ever actually become qualified to make a judgment on this issue, your opinion will be quite different than it is now.

 

[Summit]

Today, men still only make up between 5%–10% of the nursing workforce in the United States, United Kingdom, and Canada. - See more at: http://www.minoritynurse.com/articl...urses-perceptions-gender#sthash.27HvxIA2.dpuf

The majority of med students are female now.

Since we are talking ED/ICU RNs, that is more like 40% male.

 

[VFlutter]

One "generalist education" had him intubating, using RSI medications that he decided/ordered to use, had anesthesia clerkship even before the fellowship, was educated on a medical model to assess patients and order treatment not carry out orders and perform nursing interventions etc and was functioning in the role of a physician from the start. Certainly anyone can see RN and MD are on equal footing with their generalist education right before the start of their fellowship.

How many intubations do you think a Medical student gets prior to graduating? And I can assure you the Medical student is not deciding/ordering the RSI drugs. Most will step in and intubate under direct supervision of the MD only after the patient has been induced. This is usually only in the OR and if the student is lucky. I have never seen a student intubate in any type of urgent/emergent situation.

No one was arguing that RNs and MDs are equal. But your attempt to draw some conclusion about RN-Medic from the exaggerated comparison between CRNA and MDA doesn't really work.

Anyone who thinks a RN does nothing but follow MD orders and knows nothing about medicine is mistaken. We do not sit on our hands and wait for the MD to give us an order to do something. I have standing orders and can call for verbal orders just like online medical control. There are many times MDs will ask my opinion or ask if there are any orders I want. Many times I will call a MD, give my asssessment, ask for orders, and treat the patient without the MD ever seeing the patient or giving me an order (Other than agreeing with what I asked for).

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

How many intubations do you think a Medical student gets prior to graduating? And I can assure you the Medical student is not deciding/ordering the RSI drugs. Most will step in and intubate under direct supervision of the MD only after the patient has been induced. This is usually only in the OR and if the student is lucky. I have never seen a student intubate in any type of urgent/emergent situation.

No one was arguing that RNs and MDs are equal. But your attempt to draw some conclusion about RN-Medic from the exaggerated comparison between CRNA and MDA doesn't really work.

Anyone who thinks a RN does nothing but follow MD orders and knows nothing about medicine is mistaken. We do not sit on our hands and wait for the MD to give us an order to do something. I have standing orders and can call for verbal orders just like online medical control. There are many times MDs will ask my opinion or ask if there are any orders I want. Many times I will call a MD, give my asssessment, ask for orders, and treat the patient without the MD ever seeing the patient or giving me an order (Other than agreeing with what I asked for).

Last time I checked anastesia fellowship for md does not commence post 4 years of medical school, there is that 3 year internal medicine thing before one calls himself a fellow.h34r:

 

[Carlos Danger]

Last time I checked anastesia fellowship for md does not commence post 4 years of medical school, there is that 3 year internal medicine thing before one calls himself a fellow.h34r:

What are you talking about?

Anesthesiology is a 3 year residency that is started immediately after medical school.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

What are you talking about?

Anesthesiology is a 3 year residency that is started immediately after medical school.

Please link to a medical school that offers this in 3 years straight out of medical school.

It would be at least 4 with the base year and additional year of fellowship if you specialize.

 

[Akulahawk]

What are you talking about?

Anesthesiology is a 3 year residency that is started immediately after medical school.

I read that it's more like a 4 year, where the PGY1's 1st year is spent doing internal med, then PGY2-4 is spent doing Anesthesiology...

 

[Handsome Robb]

I have a strong opinion about RN to Medic bridge courses and the same opinion about Medic to Rn courses.

With that said I think these things are very person dependent. You have an experienced ICU/ED nurse that also holds an EMT-B cert and presumably (sorry I might have missed it in the OP) has prehospital experience. I don't really see a short classroom portion combined with a good internship in a high performance system with a preceptor who is there to teach and not just for the shift differential is a viable option.

Is it an good option for everyone? Absolutely not but you need to look at the individual. I'll support an OP like this all the way who seeks out a course that will provide more but not require the entire program rather than just coming here and wanting to challenge the exam.

 

[Akulahawk]

Last time I checked anastesia fellowship for md does not commence post 4 years of medical school, there is that 3 year internal medicine thing before one calls himself a fellow.h34r:

No... 1 year internal med, 3 years anesthesiology...

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

If you still got your panties in a bunch regarding internal medicine was for Anesthesia/Critical Care Medicine (CCM) Fellowship program.

I already described my background, which obviously influences what I know to be true on this issue.

Being that you have not completed an RN program and then spent several years working in critical care, I really don't see what you even base your opinion on, or how you feel you can challenge me on what I should "see".

I am quite confident you that if you ever actually become qualified to make a judgment on this issue, your opinion will be quite different than it is now.

I have no intention of completing an RN program actually that would be a drastic step back for me. Sorry I am not as omnipotent as ICU RN that can transform into a paramedic in 2 weeks or a CCM anesthesiologist just after CRNA school. Why bother going to school for all these jobs and specialties, we can all become omnipotent RN's and take over all the specialties.

 

[Handsome Robb]

If you still got your panties in a bunch regarding internal medicine was for Anesthesia/Critical Care Medicine (CCM) Fellowship program.



I have no intention of completing an RN program actually that would be a drastic step back for me. Sorry I am not as omnipotent as ICU RN that can transform into a paramedic in 2 weeks or a CCM anesthesiologist just after CRNA school. Why bother going to school for all these jobs and specialties, we can all become omnipotent RN's and take over all the specialties.

I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating that.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating that.

Maybe I misread these parts

Just not true. I've known many RN's with strong ICU and/or ED backgrounds come into the flight environment and after a thorough orientation, really rock in the prehospital arena. Many of these took abbreviated paramedic programs or were able to simply take the state certifying exam.

I do not see your point. They both had a generalist eduction and then decided to further their education and specialize.

 

[Carlos Danger]

If you still got your panties in a bunch regarding internal medicine was for Anesthesia/Critical Care Medicine (CCM) Fellowship program.



I have no intention of completing an RN program actually that would be a drastic step back for me. Sorry I am not as omnipotent as ICU RN that can transform into a paramedic in 2 weeks or a CCM anesthesiologist just after CRNA school. Why bother going to school for all these jobs and specialties, we can all become omnipotent RN's and take over all the specialties.

Alright, just as I suspected it would, this has gotten completely ridiculous. Because you can't justify your hardline stance, you are trying to detract from the initial discussion with unrelated debates over CRNA vs. anesthesiology education and the length of anesthesiology residencies.

You have never been to nursing school. You have never done critical care. You simply are not qualified to make the claims that you have here.

Have whatever opinions you want, but for your own good I would seriously consider trying to break your habit of acting as an authority on topics of which you have very little knowledge.

 

[CriticalCareIFT]

Alright, just as I suspected it would, this has gotten completely ridiculous. Because you can't justify your hardline stance, you are trying to detract from the initial discussion with debates over CRNA vs. anesthesiology education and the length of anesthesiology residencies.

You have never been to nursing school. You have never done critical care. You simply are not qualified to make the claims that you have here.

Have whatever opinions you want, but for your own good I would seriously consider trying to break your habit of acting as an authority on topics of which you have very little knowledge.

I am just stating my opinion. Authority?, I was not the one to write my autobiography here, of where I lecture and who I teach. I suppose we should take your word because you are an authority on 2 week RN to Medic transition?

 

[Akulahawk]

If you still got your panties in a bunch regarding internal medicine was for Anesthesia/Critical Care Medicine (CCM) Fellowship program.



I have no intention of completing an RN program actually that would be a drastic step back for me. Sorry I am not as omnipotent as ICU RN that can transform into a paramedic in 2 weeks or a CCM anesthesiologist just after CRNA school. Why bother going to school for all these jobs and specialties, we can all become omnipotent RN's and take over all the specialties.

Then what else in your educational background do you have that makes you an authority, for what you claim, about what nurses actually know, do, and are capable of? What do you have in your own educational background do you have that provides you such a superior knowledge-base that becoming an RN would be step back?

I'm certainly no authority about nursing, but seeing as I've completed most of RN school, at this point, I'm quite likely a far higher authority than you are in this particular subject matter.

 

[Akulahawk]

I am just stating my opinion. Authority?, I was not the one to write my autobiography here, of where I lecture and who I teach. I suppose we should take your word because you are an authority on 2 week RN to Medic transition?

Well, given that Halothane has both a strong Paramedic and Nursing background, with experience in critical care, yes, I would expect that there's sufficient understanding of the requirements of making a safe, entry-level Paramedic, and how to achieve that when dealing with competent, experienced ICU RN's. Much of that would involve teaching the psychomotor and operational components to the RN's, and that doesn't take all that long to accomplish. RN's that don't work in the ICU/ED setting would probably have a MUCH more difficult time transitioning to Paramedic. A 2 week transition course would probably NOT be for those nurses.

 

[VFlutter]

If you still got your panties in a bunch regarding internal medicine was for Anesthesia/Critical Care Medicine (CCM) Fellowship program.

Do not try to back pedal now. Why would you quote the requirements for a dual fellowship when trying to make an argument comparing CRNA/MDA? The vast majority of MDs do not take that route. Most MDAs do not do critical care fellowships. You either intentially tried to exaggerate or you have no idea what your talking about. I am guessing the latter.