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MariaCatEMT

MariaCatEMT

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Would you as an EMT, willingly work for a supervisor who:



1. Will not perform FULL CPR......and has stated he/she would only do compressions, but never mouth-to-mouth (even with a shield), or mouth-to-mask...so only compressions, no breaths.....he/she would depend entirely on others to perform the breaths.

2. Teaches CPR.....but has stated he/she will not perform FULL CPR.

3. Has emphatically stated he/she will NOT ever stop at a traffic accident should he/she happen to drive by one, in his/her personal vehicle.

4. Will be teaching an EMT-Basic course, despite stating he/she will NOT perform FULL CPR, or stop at a traffic accident (even if no police, firefighters, or EMT/Paramedics are present and there is obvious injury) while driving by in his/her personal vehicle.



Comments would be appreciated.
 
and this person has the b:censored:s to call themself an emergency medical service professional??? that's bull:censored:
 
I have known medics who state "I don't work codes, I call them." Their attitudes suck.

So they won't do M2M....will they use a BVM? how about intubate? or do they have no airway management at all?

Let'em have at the compressions, take airway management. I wish our beach safety people were so quick to want to be the ones to do compressions. That way I wouldn't have to be the one getting my workout in the sun on the beach when its about a baazillion degrees. They always have CPR started before we get there, but for the most part are to happy to say sure when I ask them if they are okay or do they want me to take over.

I'd work for them though. Simply because I have my own attitude of "My glass is mostly full" and just because my supervisors got a bad one I do not let that affect mine or the care I give to my patients.
 
Aforementioned supervisor will NOT do breaths under any circumstances.........mouth-to-mouth (which this I can understand), mouth-to-mouth with a shield, mouth-to-mask, or BVM. Nada, zilcho, nothing, period....."I am not getting near anyone's face under any circumstances." Which I take issue with as he TEACHES CPR. Am I just being *****y to have a problem with this? Also, the whole I will NEVER stop at an accident even "if people's guts are hanging out and there is no one there to help" if I am in my POV......bothers me.

I do appreciate the comments though, thanks. You help me to think on it. Even if I am pissed.:ph34r:
 
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This person seems to have chosen the wrong career.
That would not be tolerated over here, all staff are expected to provide the highest level of BLS / ACLS regardless of rank or they go back to clinical for reassessment.

I would hope he/she does not respond from home, if they arrived on scene first and the crew are miles away the patient wouldn’t stand a chance. :sad:

As for not stopping at the scene of a serious RTA would worry the hell out of me, makes you wonder what level of care his/her patients receive on a normal daily basis. With that sort off thinking im supprised they even teach BLS.

I must admit I would not do mouth to mouth, it is shown to jo public over here for BLS but on a health care profession level it just isn’t practiced anymore, the chance of infection is just too great & if you’re off work you can’t help no one. Saying that if a Pead was involved that would probably change my point of view.
 
I think this person may be a good EMS provider at work... but his attitude isn't appropriate for a role model (the whole "moral duty to act" with an MVA thing)
 
Well the airway thing would be a definite problem if he's not even willing to do them with a BVM. But truly and as infuriating as it may be, it's his choice, his morals to you and me may be lacking and he probably is in the wrong career but it is his choice to stop and help or do breaths without a specific device.
 
Yes, yes, and yes. O.k. the BVM issue is stretching it, but I personally will not under any circumstances do mouth to mouth. CPR is all about compressions and increasing circulation and preload (see new standards for further justification), airway is no longer immediately emphasized. Yes the apnic patient will need to be ventilated, but not at the exposure risk to a provider. After all, you wouldn't go into a burning buiding without bunker gear would you?

As far as the stopping at a scene when you're off duty, no I don't and probably never will. It makes me no less of a professional, but off duty is off duty. If i'm not on the ambulance or helicopter, someone else is and they can appropriately treat and transport. Besides I have no equipment with me and the presence of bystanders regardless of their intentions is just one more issue that responding units have to deal with.

I'd like to see further refernece to any statute that requires a "moral duty to act" when off duty. In most cases it is a moral inclination to act...........
 
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Have to agree with you flight. I will not do mouth to mouth unless it is a family member or very very close friend. New standards do not indicate it as much anyways for the above stated reasons.

As for him not wishing to do it even with a BVM, that is crazy. How can he justify retaining his position if he does not follow what are standard guidelines? Why is he even employed?

As for him teaching CPR, yet then personally not wishing to follow it, so what. As long as he teaches and adheres to the standards, he is doing his job. I would hate for him to shortchange students that have paid him for this lesson.

As for refusing to stop while off duty, again that is his perrogative. I do not stop either. My time is my time and my golden rule I live by and teach all my students, is "It is not my emergency". I do what I can, when I can as long as I am on duty. Yes, I have stopped but I do not make it a habit and I have passed many of an accident with no fire, police or EMS on scene. What am I going to do with no equipment, gloves, tools, anything.

I will no longer be sitting on the side of the road tending to victims while my family sits in the car watching me work yet another accident. I got over the "hero" syndrome a long time ago.
 
Have to agree with Flight and AK.... I don't stop at scenes unless A.) I can tell by a visual that there is an immediate need for me.. and B.) no one else (medically trained) is there yet.... too much liability (in getting injured myself) for me to put myself at risk.

As for the mouth to mouth thing.. for me it just depends.. but I don't worry much about it as I always have my facemask with me when I'm working (even have one in my car for emergencies at work).... The BVM issue... well there IS an issue there! As for teaching CPR... He probably shouldn't teach it if he doesn't believe in it... at some point he will shortchange students.
 
It seems as though your main concern was with the person's unwillingness to perform CPR. As others have mentioned, providing O2 is no longer a focus of EMS. I know many people who will only use BVMs.

As far as stopping at a scene, i find it perfectly normal for a person to not stop at a scene in their POV. I drive about 25,000 a miles a year, mostly highway miles. I've witnessed many accidents, and have called PD/Fire/EMS for each one. I've yet to stop. I don't think that makes me a bad person or bad EMT. I think it makes me someone who has their own safety and wellbeing in mind.

Yes, I would work with a supervisor that shared the same beliefs you presented. As an EMT it is my job to provide patient care to the best of my ability, having my own wellbeing in mind. It is not my job or responsibility to tell others how to do their job. Unless I witnessed a colleague's actions harming a patient or as having the ability to harm a patient, I don't believe it is my position to make a big deal out of it.
 
I appreciate everyone's comments on this, thanks so much. This forum is always good for honest feedback. I wish that I could get into more detail right now and unfold the entire drama.....there are other things too....and now I have to decide what to do, whether or not to stay or leave my vollie FD. I can't wrap my head around it right now. Unfortunately I'm not a good "grey area" thinker and tend to see principles as absolute. I view leadership the same way. If anyone here has experience with chain-of-command and conflict resolution within a vollie FD....I sure need help. Right now, today...the only solution I see is me quitting.
 
I'd let things cool off for a bit then evaluate the situation. It seems like there is a lot to this situation, and I personally hate burning bridges in the heat of the moment. Take a break from it and then re-evaluate the situation.

I believe that if you really want to do it enough, you can find a way to make it work and enjoy it. It may involve relenting on your principles to a degree, but it may be worth it. Only you can make that decision.
 
A thing to remember about Vollie services:

If you get in one town's bad books, you may end up in the bad books of neighboring towns.

People talk.
Vollie FD talk too much.
 
SwissEMT said:
A thing to remember about Vollie services:

If you get in one town's bad books, you may end up in the bad books of neighboring towns.

People talk.
Vollie FD talk too much.
Click to expand...

Paid people talk too much too. It's one big drama around here with the paid crews.
 
m2m...hell no

I won't do mouth to mouth or mouth to mask on anyone who isn't related to me. i don't know many people, other than rookies who would.

but from what i gather, this person won't even do bvm? that doesn't make sense. what's the difference between using a bvm and cleaning the suction unit or throwing away the vomit bag/bin/basin? you wear gloves, you are fine.

but, no...i would never do mouth to mask even...those masks are pretty crappy and you can still get someone's vomit/blood in your mouth.
 
My question to you is have you ever done mouth to mouth in the field on a real patient? Have you ever been on the scene with over zealous wanna-be's that are actually getting in the way instead of helping?

Medicine is grey, it is not a text book life of black and white. That is why it is considered an art, not an exact science. The same is not all field way as well, there are guidelines. Those books you were taught out of was suggestions, guidelines to follow and apply when applicable.

No, I would not do mouth to mouth or even mouth to mask, tube, etc. I have years before, and yes even recieved an extra happy meal while doing it... but, Hep. C, HIV, MRSA, VRSA etc. was not prominant then. Yes, I am CPR instructor...so what?

No, I don't stop at scenes, no I don't carry jump bag, or any medical equipment in my auto, I do have a cell phone though to call 911. I am a Paramedic professor.. does this make me less as well?.. No

This is a job to some of us, and our job is to provide excellant emergency medical care, and by doing so it saves a life .. great, that what we weere suppposed to do.

R/ r 911
 
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R/r - I'm just curious - you say no mouth to mask? - At what point do you draw the line? is a flimsy faceshield not enough? is a full pocket mask enough? I'm just curious as to where you "draw the line"
 
I have a keychain face shield with me at all times. The people I work with, myself included in this, will do CPR on a person with nothing more than a flimsy t-shirt as a barrier.

I've stopped at a tractor trailer accident in the rain wearing shorts and sandals with no bag whatsoever, getting there 15 minutes before even the cops got there. By no means would I have been able to help the driver medically, but he was able to calm down just knowing that some sort of medical professional was there.

Am I an overzealous newbie? No. EMS is my life. I work, eat, and sleep EMS. I literally live where I work and know the people I treat. I have always wanted to be an EMT, always a paramedic. There has never been any doubt in my mind that I would become an EMT.

Does this mean I have any less respect for someone who is not willing to do things that I am? No way; I have respect for each and every (well, almost) EMT because they are doing what they do, not because of what they don't do. It just means that we have different opinions as to how far we are willing to go.

Am I setting myself up for burnout? Very possibly, but I'm more than willing to take my chances because I have different plans of where I can go, though none of them have anything to do with Outback.

I challenge myself and everyone else to not make judgment calls against one another because of things certain people don't/won't do. To make any sort of judgment of someone, you have to know the entire story, see the entire picture. So, I rescind my prior comment.
 
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Nicely said TCERT. I too have been on scene for 15 minutes before ANYONE arrived, also in shorts, once in a tuxedo.

Maria- I can't find the link, but if i'm not mistaken, in Illinois EMT's are required to stop and render aid. Maybe police could help with that one. Still looking for the link.
 
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