Police use HIPAA to charge person for recording them

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Rialaigh said:
Protecting family that have not been notified yet is a good enough reason for me. Period. I'm not here to cater to the guy with his I-phone and his window down while he is driving past. A medical emergency is exactly that. A tragedy where people die is exactly that, I refuse to let myself be seen in a home youtube video because someone thought the crash was "cool". Now if the emergency part is over, the body has been transported, or the family has been notified. And the videoing is not endangering us or others, fine.
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You do understand that the law is against you on this right? It has been reinforced multiple times in the courts that you have zero expectation of privacy in public. If you don't like being photographed or recorded, don't be out in public.
 
Aidey said:
You do understand that the law is against you on this right? It has been reinforced multiple times in the courts that you have zero expectation of privacy in public. If you don't like being photographed or recorded, don't be out in public.
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If the person photographing or videoing is breaking the law, and we have the available manpower to enforce the law. We generally do.
 
I'm not talking about people breaking the law. I'm talking about you're attitude that you have some right to not be recorded.
 
Aidey said:
I'm not talking about people breaking the law. I'm talking about you're attitude that you have some right to not be recorded.
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People can record me if it does not in any way break the law or interfere with my scene or the safety of myself or others. I find that there are very few places where that is the case until after the incident is over or at least managed and controlled.
 
I think it is more likely that you've imagined that there are very few places where that is the case.
 
Also as far as selective enforcment of law goes. I find that law is selectively enforced where the law enforcement are. If law enforcement is on my scene, that is where the law will be enforced, it won't be enforced at the parking lot 3 roads over, because they aren't there. So yes, it absolutely is selectively enforced in that regard.
 
Rialaigh said:
People can record me if it does not in any way break the law or interfere with my scene or the safety of myself or others. I find that there are very few places where that is the case until after the incident is over or at least managed and controlled.
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I'm curious how videoing from always off would interfere with operations. For instance if there's an incident in view of my front yard, would me standing in my front yard videoing be interfering with your op?

My question is what are you afraid of being seen?
 
Rialaigh said:
Also as far as selective enforcment of law goes. I find that law is selectively enforced where the law enforcement are. If law enforcement is on my scene, that is where the law will be enforced, it won't be enforced at the parking lot 3 roads over, because they aren't there. So yes, it absolutely is selectively enforced in that regard.
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:rolleyes:
 
Aidey said:
I think it is more likely that you've imagined that there are very few places where that is the case.
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Car wreck happens on a 5 lane road (2 each way one turning lane). There is a strip mall on one side and houses all across the street on the other side. It is illegal for anyone to park their car in the road and take pictures. It is illegal to park in the strip mall lot for the sole purpose of taking pictures (every strip mall around here has a no loitering sign). It is illegal to walk in the peoples yard or stand in their yard in front of the houses on the other side of the road (private property). and If I have an ambulance parked up over the sidewalk to keep it out of the way the sidewalk is closed for people to come near my scene. So if you want to take pictures you better be parked somewhere legally, and taking photo's behind the edges of my scene that I deem a working area, if you are doing that than I am fine with it. generally that is not in the immediate area.

Car wreck happens on the highway, no excuse for anyone to stop on the highway for any sort of pictures or video, it is illegal, and it is unsafe. The only video or pictures will be from a news chopper and that is fine, unless we feel the need to fly someone out, in which case I will be darned if a news chopper comes anywhere near my airspace until after the person is flown out.


my point is there are places you can take pictures or video at scenes I am at. They are not likely to be close, and the only way I tollerate them is if they do not interfere with my scene and do not interfere with anyones safety.
 
usalsfyre said:
Be a freaking adult. If you want to be a public servant...act like one. "Annoying you" is not a good reason to selectively enforce the law.

Your feelings don't enter into the equation.
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I will, however, say the moment the doors my ambulance close, I DO have an expectation of privacy and do have the right to ask them be shut off. Not saying I have, not saying I will, just saying it's there.




Just like smoking. (Except I HAVE demanded them be put out, and WILL continue to do so as a condition of you calling 911 for my help)
 
usalsfyre said:
I'm curious how videoing from always off would interfere with operations. For instance if there's an incident in view of my front yard, would me standing in my front yard videoing be interfering with your op?

My question is what are you afraid of being seen?
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I have no problem with you videoing in your front yard, however if three people who clearly don't live there pull their cars in your driveway and get out and start videoing, they will be told to leave. Its private property and they are breaking the law.



I prefer to have one of our captains handle press. If someone wants a video interview or a statement about an incident they can come to the station or make a phone call. I will not appear in an interview, department policy states it will be handled by captain +. If its a large incident we will have a public information officer or one of the chiefs will be handling press. I am there to do my job, if the news wants to get interviews with me or the rest of the guys that work/volunteer at my station they can talk to one of the big wigs and get prior approval before interviewing.
 
Rialaigh said:
Car wreck happens on a 5 lane road (2 each way one turning lane). There is a strip mall on one side and houses all across the street on the other side. It is illegal for anyone to park their car in the road and take pictures. It is illegal to park in the strip mall lot for the sole purpose of taking pictures (every strip mall around here has a no loitering sign). It is illegal to walk in the peoples yard or stand in their yard in front of the houses on the other side of the road (private property). and If I have an ambulance parked up over the sidewalk to keep it out of the way the sidewalk is closed for people to come near my scene. So if you want to take pictures you better be parked somewhere legally, and taking photo's behind the edges of my scene that I deem a working area, if you are doing that than I am fine with it. generally that is not in the immediate area.

Car wreck happens on the highway, no excuse for anyone to stop on the highway for any sort of pictures or video, it is illegal, and it is unsafe. The only video or pictures will be from a news chopper and that is fine, unless we feel the need to fly someone out, in which case I will be darned if a news chopper comes anywhere near my airspace until after the person is flown out.


my point is there are places you can take pictures or video at scenes I am at. They are not likely to be close, and the only way I tollerate them is if they do not interfere with my scene and do not interfere with anyones safety.
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I'm going into the business but want to take some pics first.

Is it trespassing if the property owner doesn't file a complaint?

You routinely close sidewalks and roll the patients over curbs? Is there any statute actually supporting you closing the sidewalk?

Why are you so bothered by this?
 
Linuss said:
I will, however, say the moment the doors my ambulance close, I DO have an expectation of privacy and do have the right to ask them be shut off. Not saying I have, not saying I will, just saying it's there.




Just like smoking. (Except I HAVE demanded them be put out, and WILL continue to do so as a condition of you calling 911 for my help)
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I respect that. Although I am not even sure about the legality of demanding that ciggerettes be put out. I am all for it but unsure about that.
 
usalsfyre said:
I'm going into the business but want to take some pics first.

Is it trespassing if the property owner doesn't file a complaint?

You routinely close sidewalks and roll the patients over curbs? Is there any statute actually supporting you closing the sidewalk?

Why are you so bothered by this?
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we routinely close sidewalks when there is a wreck blocking multiple lanes. Generally we have police cars and everything else up on the sidewalk. Plus if it is an extrication that sidewalk is within the "zone" that I don't want the public. If you park legally and go into the business fine. I assure you that we see much more of people illegally parking across 2-3+ spaces and then congregating in the parking lot. I'm not here to nitpick little situations. I prefer less video on my scenes, you are okay with more. I have law to back me up, so do you.
 
usalsfyre said:
I'm going into the business but want to take some pics first.

Is it trespassing if the property owner doesn't file a complaint?

You routinely close sidewalks and roll the patients over curbs? Is there any statute actually supporting you closing the sidewalk?

Why are you so bothered by this?
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Question for you regarding this. Lets say you are running a medical call. You have a guy who stroked in walmart. It is just you, your partner, and a law enforcment officer on scene. This guy appears to be a stroke and his wife is with him. There are people gathering around pulling their cell phones out and taking video. Do you feel like you have the legal authority to ask the law enforcement officer to ask people to shut their camera's off and not take video, or audio recordings while you identify the man, and go over past medical history with his wife. Seems to me like you would be discussing private medical information out in the open as a medical neccesity to not delay treatment. Do you think that is justifiable to have people shut off audio and video recording?
 
Walmart is private property. They can shut the store. There will be a sign someplace that says "right to pass subject to owner's permission" or some such.

I hated bystanders and I hate flashmobs on principle.


On a public area (road, sidewalk, park) I bet there are some case law guidelines as to what a reasonable zone of exclusion is.
 
mycrofft said:
Walmart is private property. They can shut the store. There will be a sign someplace that says "right to pass subject to owner's permission" or some such.

I hated bystanders and I hate flashmobs on principle.


On a public area (road, sidewalk, park) I bet there are some case law guidelines as to what a reasonable zone of exclusion is.
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I know all MVA's are considered possible gas leaks until proven otherwise, and I know that ERG reccomends 150 ft. So that is an official standard for starters which you could cite for booting people (anyone not in turnout pants, or not "trained") 150 feet from your MVA scene....
 
Folks, as one of the CL's, I'm going to say this thread is going to be deemed "agree to disagree."

It is reasonable to assume that as an EMS provider, you may be recorded at any time. Your behavior should reflect that. It is also reasonable that if the EMS provider feels his safety or the safety of others is being compromised, he may ask law-enforcement to intervene.

We can go round and round on this topic, But I feel that we're not going to get anywhere fast…

Also, be aware that we do not issue any legal advice on this forum. I'll be keeping an eye on this discussion…
 
n7lxi said:
Folks, as one of the CL's, I'm going to say this thread is going to be deemed "agree to disagree."

It is reasonable to assume that as an EMS provider, you may be recorded at any time. Your behavior should reflect that. It is also reasonable that if the EMS provider feels his safety or the safety of others is being compromised, he may ask law-enforcement to intervene.

We can go round and round on this topic, But I feel that we're not going to get anywhere fast…

Also, be aware that we do not issue any legal advice on this forum. I'll be keeping an eye on this discussion…
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You said it a lot nicer than I was going to.
 
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