Patient requesting "shutdown" prior to arrival.

[DrParasite]

As a matter of policy, we don't let the callers dictate our response. So if the caller says "I need the paramedics" or "don't send the police" or "don't use your lights or sirens", it doesn't matter to us. We screen the calls, send a response based on our dispatch protocols, and if policy says to do something, we do it.

as a general rule, I don't use the airhorns on night calls, or when transporting a patient, but lights and sirens are used (as directed by policy). and on night calls, the lights go off once we arrive, and the flood lights go on once we have located the house. for day calls, unless we are parked on a highway, the lights go off and I usually switch to my hazards.

 

[Nerd13]

I'll admit. This bothers me too. I just feel like if you're sick enough that I have to use my lights and sirens then your neighbors not knowing you're sick shouldn't be your first priority. An ambulance sitting in your driveway is going to be obvious with or without lights.

I've also heard of people running lights with no sirens at night to not wake up the neighborhood and then getting complaints from the pts family because they couldn't hear them coming. My argument is that it's technically illegal here to run lights no sirens anyway but that's for another time...

 

[JPINFV]

^
Just curious, but where is "here?"

 

[DrParasite]

^
Just curious, but where is "here?"

Quite a few states require an audible alert to accompany any visual emergency light, when a vehicle is in motion and responding to an emergency when using emergency warning devices.

translation: if your lights are on, your sirens needs to be on.

check your states Vehicle and traffic laws regarding emergency vehicles.

I know NJ and NY require this, and I am pretty sure PA, DE and MD are the same way. can't speak for the west coast though

 

[JPINFV]

I have no doubt that many states do, but I also have no doubt that many people -think- their state has such laws because an instructor, supervisor, or partner erroneously told them it.

Edit: Something else to think about. Does the law require sirens to be sounded with lights, or just that both lights and sirens be used in order to be exempt from certain traffic laws. Similarly, does it require a "siren" or just "audible warning device," which would include a siren, but also include a vehicle horn? If it's the latter, why would you need to run an audible warning device if you aren't actually taking advantage of the provisions of the law at that immediate point of time?

Edit number 2: Take NY's law. Under a strict reading, a siren is not required. Sounding the air horn, or electronic equivalent, satisfies the requirments to demand the right of way.

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/LAWSSEAF.cgi?QUERYTYPE=LAWS+&QUERYDATA=$$VAT1144$$@TXVAT01144+&LIST=LAW+&BROWSER=BROWSER+&TOKEN=34468508+&TARGET=VIEW

 

[usalsfyre]

So is there any reason to run emergency in areas and times where there's likely to be no traffic and/or traffic yielding to you won't make a difference in time?

 

[Shishkabob]

Law? No. Policy? Yes.


Though Texas law does require the operator of the vehicle to use what they deem necessary, as long as it follows agency policy and local law.

Sec. 546.003. AUDIBLE OR VISUAL SIGNALS REQUIRED. Except as provided by Section 546.004, the operator of an authorized emergency vehicle engaging in conduct permitted by Section 546.001 shall use, at the discretion of the operator in accordance with policies of the department or the local government that employs the operator, audible or visual signals that meet the pertinent requirements of Sections 547.305 and 547.702.

Cool tid-bit? I finally found the law that says I can park wherever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want. In your face, gas-station attendant!

 

[JPINFV]

Cool tid-bit? I finally found the law that says I can park wherever the hell I want, whenever the hell I want. In your face, gas-station attendant!

Including when not on an emergency call?

Also, just because you could, doesn't mean you should. I've always found it tacky when fire fighters would park their fire engine in front of a grocery store in a manner that screws up the traffic pattern because they didn't feel like walking a few feet further.

 

[Sasha]

Including when not on an emergency call?

Also, just because you could, doesn't mean you should. I've always found it tacky when fire fighters would park their fire engine in front of a grocery store in a manner that screws up the traffic pattern because they didn't feel like walking a few feet further.

Right? Firefighters are supposed to be super fit a few feet wouldnt hurt them!

Sent from LuLu using Tapatalk

 

[Shishkabob]

Including when not on an emergency call?

Even when.

Sec. 546.001. PERMISSIBLE CONDUCT. In operating an authorized emergency vehicle the operator may:
(1) park or stand, irrespective of another provision of this subtitle

Also, just because you could, doesn't mean you should. I've always found it tacky when fire fighters would park their fire engine in front of a grocery store in a manner that screws up the traffic pattern because they didn't feel like walking a few feet further.

If we COULD have parked somewhere else, we would have. We had to park in the middle of the alley between the door and the gas pumps, not blocking any parking spot. The attendant was angry because she couldn't see if "anyone was having trouble paying at the pump"

 

[Tigger]

There's a large wooden sign in dispatch that says "The Answer is Yes." With that said, if the caller of a facility requests that we shut the lights off before getting on scene, we'll do it. It doesn't really effect me in the slightest, and I much prefer to start calls with a happy patient or facility staff.

Most of the SNFs we service request this, but for the 40 acre campus one, I leave them on so their security can find us when I get lost again.

 

[NomadicMedic]

We actually have an SOG that states we turn lights and sirens off when entering a residential subdivision. Makes sense to me. I only use 'em on main roads anyway...


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[usalsfyre]

We actually have an SOG that states we turn lights and sirens off when entering a residential subdivision. Makes sense to me. I only use 'em on main roads anyway...


Sent from my iPhone.

Yeah but it takes like what 20 minutes to get from one end of your state to the other? I mean geeze, I've had response districts that were bigger .

 

[Shishkabob]

Yeah but it takes like what 20 minutes to get from one end of your state to the other? I mean geeze, I've had response districts that were bigger .

I've had county roads that took longer to get from entry to scene...

 

[JPINFV]

Even when.

Sec. 546.001. PERMISSIBLE CONDUCT. In operating an authorized emergency vehicle the operator may:
(1) park or stand, irrespective of another provision of this subtitle

You might want to finish reading the section...

"Sec. 546.002. WHEN CONDUCT PERMISSIBLE.(b) Section 546.001 applies only when the operator is:

(1) responding to an emergency call;
(2) pursuing an actual or suspected violator of the law;
(3) responding to but not returning from a fire alarm;
(4) directing or diverting traffic for public safety purposes; or
(5) conducting a police escort."​

What's interesting is that nothing applies to transporting, unless you want to finagle "responding" to include transport.

If we COULD have parked somewhere else, we would have. We had to park in the middle of the alley between the door and the gas pumps, not blocking any parking spot. The attendant was angry because she couldn't see if "anyone was having trouble paying at the pump"

...because people can't walk to the attendant?

 

[NomadicMedic]

Yeah but it takes like what 20 minutes to get from one end of your state to the other? I mean geeze, I've had response districts that were bigger .

This is true. Our HEMS uses those balsa wood helicopters you power with a rubberband.


Sent from my iPhone.

 

[Shishkabob]

You might want to finish reading the section...

Technically, I DID finish reading Section 546.001

Oh and,
"directing or diverting traffic for public safety purposes"

Diverting traffic away from my ambulance so we can leave when we have to. Ta-da. ^_^

Maybe not within the "spirit of the law", but most defintly within it technically, which is really all that matters in courts anymore.

...because people can't walk to the attendant?

I smiled and asked her to call the Police if she had an issue.


I would have been less rude had she been less rude.

 

[usalsfyre]

This is true. Our HEMS uses those balsa wood helicopters you power with a rubberband.


Sent from my iPhone.

When did AEL move into Delaware?!?

 

[Nerd13]

^
Just curious, but where is "here?"

Michigan

If you want to get technical about it both sirens and lights have to be used in order to be exempt from some traffic laws. Why would I be running RLS unless it were to be exempt from those traffic laws though?

I don't think our local police would ever do anything about it but it could come up in court were somebody to be running lights no sirens and have an accident.

 

[JJR512]

Quite a few states require an audible alert to accompany any visual emergency light, when a vehicle is in motion and responding to an emergency when using emergency warning devices.
...
I know NJ and NY require this, and I am pretty sure PA, DE and MD are the same way. can't speak for the west coast though

Maryland has this requirement. Well, sort of...

I have no doubt that many states do, but I also have no doubt that many people -think- their state has such laws because an instructor, supervisor, or partner erroneously told them it.

Edit: Something else to think about. [1] Does the law require sirens to be sounded with lights, or just that both lights and sirens be used in order to be exempt from certain traffic laws. [2] Similarly, does it require a "siren" or just "audible warning device," which would include a siren, but also include a vehicle horn? If it's the latter, why would you need to run an audible warning device if you aren't actually taking advantage of the provisions of the law at that immediate point of time?

I added the numbers 1 and 2 in brackets to the above quote to address each of those questions as they relate to Maryland.

1. The special privileges afforded to a driver of an emergency vehicle in Maryland, while operating on an emergency call, are afforded only when the vehicle is operated with both audible and visual signals. Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 21-106

2. An "audible signal" is specifically defined as a "siren, exhaust whistle, or bell capable of giving an audible signal". Md. TRANSPORTATION Code Ann. § 22-218 Therefore, a horn, including an air horn, is not an audible signal as defined by Maryland law for the purpose of granting emergency driving privileges to the operator of an emergency vehicle.

In my experience, I cannot recall an EVO ever using a siren through a residential area when it wasn't necessary to do so, especially at night. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that in my experience, EVOs I'm familiar with use the siren as minimally as possible, period.