Paid "Volunteer" Department

Hal I am sorry. My mistake.
 
EMSLaw said:
In New Jersey, though, the law is that if you bill for services, you are a paid service, and if you do not, you are volunteer. That's regardless of whether the staff are paid or partially paid.
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it's splitting words, but that's not entirely accurate. the law says that if you bill for service, you can't be volunteer. it doesn't make you paid. in fact, most places would consider you to be non-profit service, regardless of if your employees are paid or not. similarly, if your staff is paid, but you don't bill for services, your agency can still be considered volunteer. welcome to NJ
EMSLaw said:
Of course, most volunteers receive nothing for their work other than free training and a few small benefits (like LOSAP, which is something like a small 401(k), and uniforms and the like). But if you did it for the pay and benefits, it wouldn't be volunteer work, now would it? :)
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yeah what he said.

and yes, many EMS systems in NJ, as well as in other parts of the country, still rely completely on donations for operating expenses. they receive minimal tax money (usually in the form of a one time donation), and they don't bill for services. And some also perform all heavy rescue and extrication services, still with no tax funds, all donations.
 
Um, an EMT-Basic in Montana is allowed to initiate IV/IO and give medications? Now I am seriously worried!!

Our volunteers get a small stipend for thier time in order to cover fuel and food, not sure exactly what it is but I think it's about $20 a shift.
 
MrBrown said:
Um, an EMT-Basic in Montana is allowed to initiate IV/IO and give medications? Now I am seriously worried!!

Our volunteers get a small stipend for thier time in order to cover fuel and food, not sure exactly what it is but I think it's about $20 a shift.
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Try this: http://www.glacierems.com/Profile.htm Got curious about the state of Montana's EMS system and found this on google.

How in the hell does a PA work as a medical director!?
 
EMSLaw said:
Wow, that's a lot. I wonder why the need for so many endorsements - it's like you want to let a Basic play with the "paramedic toys" without proper education.
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Yes.

MrBrown said:
Um, an EMT-Basic in Montana is allowed to initiate IV/IO and give medications? Now I am seriously worried!!

Our volunteers get a small stipend for thier time in order to cover fuel and food, not sure exactly what it is but I think it's about $20 a shift.
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I'll address this backward. First, that's better than paying per call, I think. I've seen EMTs fight over who should get the more lucrative shift; as I said I think EMS organizations need some structure other than a volunteer EMT free-for-all, so I might be confusing a correlation with cause.

Now, regarding your worry, you should be. I met some that were pushing D50 because they didn't know they weren't allowed to, and all they knew was that it was better than oral glucose for diabetics, so they always gave it. When another service found out what IO meant, the told me that "having that drill" was going to be "so much faster than trying to get IVs, those are hard."

Oh, Medications covers such things as nitro, diphenhydramine, and glucagon. They are also allowed to manual defib and do ETs. Of course, there are some that can use them effectively-the CRNA that lives in the little town and commutes an hour/60 miles to work, the RN that doesn't want do deal with being a paramedic, etc.-but those seem to be pretty few. Many people are taught these endorsements by other EMTs and, never working with a paramedic, nurse, or physician, and never receiving any education beyond the "skill training" to poke someone's vein apart, end up with horribly flawed knowledge.

The justification for this is that so many towns are very rural and can't afford education or even AEDs that giving them this "skillset" might save a life until a helicopter arrives. Anyway, I've met a couple of people that can use the endorsements effectively, but I've also seen EMTs spending 3/4 of an hour attempting to get an IV-so that they could then give nitro-to a person with chest pains only 5 blocks from the hospital. Make of it what you wish.
 
triemal04 said:
Try this: http://www.glacierems.com/Profile.htm Got curious about the state of Montana's EMS system and found this on google.

How in the hell does a PA work as a medical director!?
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That's an odd one. From what I know, a PA can be a medical director for EMTs (formerly basics), but then they can't perform endorsements. In this case, I imagine that the PA is more akin to a "field director," who oversees some of the field training and in-house sessions, but isn't the true medical director. I know of some services that are "guided" by PAs while being overseen in totality by a physician. I'm not certain that PAs are allowed to be the medical direction for a paramedic-level service, but I could be wrong. I'd check my educational materials, but they're stored right now, and I don't have time.

Welcome to the frontier. I swear that people think I make stuff up about the place, such as the flaming ambulance of yesteryear. <_<

Anyway, it's not all bad, and there are some professional, educated services.
 
I'm certainly not gonna get into what some states do, and do NOT, allow an EMT-Basic to do. That could be a whole thread unto itself. HOWEVER, I think mycrofts point was overlooked a bit. Not only does each state declare what their license levels can provide, but each state's labor regulations declare how wages are to be paid, or not paid. What might be completely legal in one state, may, or may not, be legal to do in another state.

As to trevor's original post. What you described is similar to the way our EMS squad runs. We have several 'paid full timers' that run a 24 on, 48 off shift. They are salaried. Then we have 'paid part timers' who work UP TO 40 hours and are paid by the hour. We also have 'paid on call' members who sign up for whatever shift happens to be open due to either illness, vacation time, jury duty, etc, etc, etc. who are also paid by the hour. Lastly, we have 'volunteers' that run a set 6 or 12 hours per week and they get paid 10.00 per run as a basic, 12.00 as an intermediate, and 15.00 as a paramedic. Also same as you described, no transport, no pay, including DOA's.
 
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wolfwyndd said:
I'm certainly not gonna get into what some states do, and do NOT, allow an EMT-Basic to do. That could be a whole thread unto itself. HOWEVER, I think mycrofts point was overlooked a bit. Not only does each state declare what their license levels can provide, but each state's labor regulations declare how wages are to be paid, or not paid. What might be completely legal in one state, may, or may not, be legal to do in another state.

As to trevor's original post. What you described is similar to the way our EMS squad runs. We have several 'paid full timers' that run a 24 on, 48 off shift. They are salaried. Then we have 'paid part timers' who work UP TO 40 hours and are paid by the hour. We also have 'paid on call' members who sign up for whatever shift happens to be open due to either illness, vacation time, jury duty, etc, etc, etc. who are also paid by the hour. Lastly, we have 'volunteers' that run a set 6 or 12 hours per week and they get paid 10.00 per run as a basic, 12.00 as an intermediate, and 15.00 as a paramedic. Also same as you described, no transport, no pay, including DOA's.
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That seems very comprehensive. Are CEUs paid by the organization?
 
"In any case, I believe that this "paid volunteer" status necessitates strict professional behavior and some form of coherent leadership
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That should be the standard regardless of pay. Sadly, it's a pipe dream even in many paid departments.
 
Hal9000 said:
That seems very comprehensive. Are CEUs paid by the organization?
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Yes. AS LONG AS the member / employee has attended most of our in - house training meetings. I'm not sure the percentage. We have one training and one business meeting a month so essentially we have 12 training meetings a year. I THINK you're allowed to miss two per year and the squad still pays for external CE Classes. Don't quote me on that number though because I'm not completely sure.
 
I think I have found the best "paid-volunteer" dept.

I volunteer to go to work and they pay me very well. It works out for all involved and everyone is happy!
 
usafmedic45 said:
That should be the standard regardless of pay. Sadly, it's a pipe dream even in many paid departments.
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Well, you just hit the nail on my somewhat biased head with that one. Very true indeed.

wolfwyndd said:
Yes. AS LONG AS the member / employee has attended most of our in - house training meetings. I'm not sure the percentage. We have one training and one business meeting a month so essentially we have 12 training meetings a year. I THINK you're allowed to miss two per year and the squad still pays for external CE Classes. Don't quote me on that number though because I'm not completely sure.
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Thanks for the answer. That seems quite reasonable indeed.
 
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